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-   -   AUKUS (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/642689-aukus.html)

Grumpy retiree 16th Sep 2021 02:32

Breathtaking decision but the correct one.
The French contract was a dogs breakfast.
There will be a vocal minority against but I think a majority for the deal.
We are already part of the nuclear cycle.
We sell uranium. We have a small reactor at Lucas Heights. We welcome Nimitz class carriers routinely.
The Greens can get over it.
This is quantum leap in capability and I’m a little surprised the yanks would even consider letting us access the Virginia Class.
But I sincerely hope they do.
China can bleat all they want.
NZ is part of the Five Eyes but has given up on being militarily competitive. They haven’t had fast jets for years.
Silence would be their best response.

tartare 16th Sep 2021 03:03

Wow - they're talking eight boats.
That's a serious commitment.

SevenTwentySeven 16th Sep 2021 03:05

LOL a nuclear sub hobbled with conventional weapons.

Somehow I don't think the Chinese are too concerned with this latest development.

aero383 16th Sep 2021 03:14

It's like Federation never happened. Australia still behaves like a colonial relic; an outpost of empire from which the mother country(ies) can launch military adventures and source cannon fodder and commodities.

A tragic waste of what could have been a genuinely great nation.

A useful distraction though for alleged leaders trying to draw attention away from debacles of own their making like Afghanistan, Brexit and the vaccine "stroll out". The "yellow peril" is still a potent political tool as it was in the 1800's.

tartare 16th Sep 2021 03:21


Originally Posted by SevenTwentySeven (Post 11111860)
LOL a nuclear sub hobbled with conventional weapons.

Somehow I don't think the Chinese are too concerned with this latest development.

Really?
Not concerned by something that can hang around undetected for two and a half months - possibly loaded out with conventional TLAMs, heavy torpedos, UUVs etc?
I imagine they'll have a pretty significant SIGINT suite as well.

Grumpy retiree 16th Sep 2021 03:22


Originally Posted by SevenTwentySeven (Post 11111860)
LOL a nuclear sub hobbled with conventional weapons.

Somehow I don't think the Chinese are too concerned with this latest development.

We are talking attack submarines not ballistic missile submarines.
Not hobbled at all.
Extremely, extremely capable.
Standing by for a flood of ill-informed opinion.
Adam Bandt already living up to expectations.

SevenTwentySeven 16th Sep 2021 03:51


Originally Posted by Grumpy retiree (Post 11111868)
We are talking attack submarines not ballistic missile submarines.
Not hobbled at all.
Extremely, extremely capable.
Standing by for a flood of ill-informed opinion.
Adam Bandt already living up to expectations.

Ok, let's paint a scenario shall we?

RAN takes out a Chinese destroyer with one of these you bewt new subs.

30 minutes later RAAF Tindal is a smoking hole in the ground.

If you are going to play with the big boys, carry a bigger stick. This is just embarrassing.

tartare 16th Sep 2021 03:54

So... the weapon from the you beaut sub will have a big Ostrayan flag on it will it?
Sheesh...

junior.VH-LFA 16th Sep 2021 04:30


Originally Posted by SevenTwentySeven (Post 11111876)
Ok, let's paint a scenario shall we?

RAN takes out a Chinese destroyer with one of these you bewt new subs.

30 minutes later RAAF Tindal is a smoking hole in the ground.

If you are going to play with the big boys, carry a bigger stick. This is just embarrassing.

By that logic why even have a defence force?

tartare 16th Sep 2021 04:38

Exactly.
If it got to the point where a RAN boat was taking out a Chinese destroyer - I think the Chinese would already have a helluva lot more to worry about than RAAF Tindall.
This is all about being part of an alliance at a strategic level - and an orbat at a tactical level.
No way we'd be acting alone in a fight.
It's a huge development.
There are two crown jewels in the special relationship - SIGINT, and nuclear capability.
Australia already is an essential partner in terms of SIGINT, and has now been given access to something that only the UK had prior.
Very significant indeed in a geopolitical sense.

belly tank 16th Sep 2021 04:39

I agree with the decision however how many times have we seen bungled purchases by the Govt / DMO? (Collins, Sea-sprite, NH90, French Subs, dare I say F-35's ).

I remember being in Newcastle harbour back in around 1995 ( Nowdays 49% Chinese owned) when the nuclear powered USS John S McCain sailed into the port for a visit, the greenies were all lined up and down the break wall in protest of it being nuclear powered and that the city was going to blow up!



Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie (Post 11111818)
Soundly in favour of it, about time we ditched the (polluting) diesel subs and went nuclear. We are a huge source of uranium, though it will need overseas processing to become fuel rods.

The French contract was a horse's arse, massive modifications to make it sort of suitable, and driven by politicians wanting some of the action in their electorates. Also not delivered till 2035, about 10 years after China takes over Hong Kong and Taiwan and a bunch of other islands in the Philippines and Indonesia.

Typical Greens, screeching about explosions in the capital cities. Can we turn them into Soylent Greens?


Grumpy retiree 16th Sep 2021 05:06

The RAN was going to blow $ 90 billion trying to stuff a diesel electric power plant into nuclear sub platform all the while pretending it could somehow come up with a capability similar to , guess what ? , a nuclear submarine.
Ironically the Virginia Class will be cheaper !
Opposition to a nuclear submarine has always been political , not military.
A rational solution at last………..

rjtjrt 16th Sep 2021 05:07

One big question is why is US selling submarines to a country like Austria that is landlocked?

Grumpy retiree 16th Sep 2021 05:14


Originally Posted by rjtjrt (Post 11111889)
One big question is why is US selling submarines to a country like Austria that is landlocked?

Havenít you seen the Sound of Music ?
The Austro - Hungarians had a navy !

Lookleft 16th Sep 2021 05:31


But I have lived long enough to know that when we are being told to fear a threat its because someone is waiting in the wings to make loads of money from it.
Or the other alternative is that there is actually a threat. If you really are border line fascist then you would remember your mob in the 30's where the threat wasn't appreciated until almost too late. You don't think Stalin wasn't prepared to steamroll Europe post war if he had kicked the Allies out of Berlin? Xi Jinping has made no secret of his determination to take Taiwan by force and has become a dictator in the process. This is no capitalist plot to make lots of money as they can make more money if there is no conflict. i would be interested to know what your definition is of having lived long enough. If you are in the 55 to 75 demographic then your knowledges of history could do with a bit of a polish.

West Coast 16th Sep 2021 05:48


Originally Posted by SevenTwentySeven (Post 11111876)

If you are going to play with the big boys, carry a bigger stick.

Thatís kinda the whole idea of upgrading to a nuclear submarine, a bigger stick.

Gnadenburg 16th Sep 2021 05:48

"We will be enhancing our long-range strike capability including Tomahawk cruise missiles to be fielded on the Royal Australian Navy Hobart class destroyers and joint air-to-surface stand-off missiles extended range for our Royal Australian Air Force capabilities," Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison told reporters in Canberra.

Tomahawk missiles too.

tartare 16th Sep 2021 06:01

Given the Tomahawk is modular - one would assume that if changing payloads ever became a necessity... it could be done.
Command and control would be an altogether different issue...

I see my other homeland to the east has already told the RAN any nuclear powered subs won't be able to visit.

Grumpy retiree 16th Sep 2021 06:59


Originally Posted by tartare (Post 11111905)
Given the Tomahawk is modular - one would assume that if changing payloads ever became a necessity... it could be done.
Command and control would be an altogether different issue...

I see my other homeland to the east has already told the RAN any nuclear powered subs won't be able to visit.

Dont think a ban on our subs will be much of an issue. Nukes only require to surface for food and R and R.

ORAC 16th Sep 2021 07:51



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