I am happy to move on, but have one itch to scratch.

What is an "implicit thought"?

It's not jargon; as I said I'm not a woke-ist and have no time for the tortured language so common in these matters. I was simply using the word 'implicit' in its common dictionary-defined form: "implied, though not plainly expressed". Similarly "implicit criticism", "implicit support", "implicit endorsement", "implicit task", etc etc.

It’s not a presumption, I know Easy Street is both old (relatively) and male.

That doesn't work. Criticism, support, endorsement, task are all in the public domain and are observable, discernible.
If one attempts to attribute implicit thought to someone, you are if fact saying "I know what he thinks subconsciously".

That is how the thought police work.

But by your observable actions and statements are you known, From this people will infer you thought processes. That is normal human behaviour. If your actions or statements are abhorrent to people, they will infer that your opinions and thoughts on the matter are equally abhorrent. Otherwise why would you say or do it?

One possible reason these days is called trolling I believe.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt in that regard.

As I was also giving you the benefit of the doubt in that regard.

There is nothing like the cut and thrust of witty repartee, and that was nothing like it!

From Politico London Playbook. Disregard the headline about the army, the report covers cases in the RAF as well.

ABUSE IN THE ARMY: The MoD faces questions today after a shocking report from the Economist’s 1843 magazine on sexual harassment and assault in the armed forces and how much of it still goes unreported and unpunished. Read the year-long investigation here.

https://www.economist.com/interactiv...ish-army-abuse

“The family secret”: how rape is hushed up in Britain’s armed forces

Utterly disgraceful story.

No doubt some old hands will be along to report it didn't happen in their day cus they were too busy handing out soap dicks or some other BS.

The UK is not alone with criticism of being easy on Sex Offenders.

https://www.armed-services.senate.go...s_06-04-13.pdf

During my tenure as a US DOD Criminal Investigator....I know for a fact that every allegation of Rape or Sexual Assault was thoroughly investigated and given a high priority with very close monitoring by our Organization's HQ.

The system saw the Investigative Report be submitted to the Officer having responsibility for initiating UCMJ prosecutions for action.

We made no recommendations for an outcome but merely did the Investigation using every means required to determine the fact situation and collect testimony and evidence.

Four of my cases stand out in my memory....one a Rape/Murder of a Female Prostitute, a second case of the Rape of a Female Prostitute, a Rape of a Female Service Member by a fellow Male Service Member, and another Rape of a Female Service Member by a Male Superior Ranking Service Member.

The first case resulted in the Conviction of the Killer who was sentenced to Eighteen Years in a Non-US Prison, the next case was settled out of Court by an offer to drop the charges if a large cash payment was made to settle local charges but Administrative Action against the Servicemember, the third was a case of withdrawn consent following the consensual intercourse by a Married Woman having remorse over a drunken weekend, and the final went to General Court-Martial where the Defendant was found "Not Guilty" (also the result of a drunken weekend but only reported three days after the assault and no forensic evidence could be obtained.

So a short recap....the Rape/Murder was a very sad case and was a very brutal murder but we worked hard to solve the case and did so....gaining a confession from the Killer and collected all manner of physical evidence.
The Service Member was Dishonorably Discharged upon his Conviction in the Non-US Court and was sentenced to eighteen years in the Non-US Prison.

The next case involved a young girl who had been "sold" to a Service Member as being a "Three Hole Girl" and upon forcing himself upon her against her Will....was charged with Rape by the US Authorities. The local Mayor approached the US Government with an offer to drop the Criminal Charges in exchange for 20,000 USD. The Senior US Commander and Defendant agreed to the Deal and I was required to orchestrate the exchange. Knowing the truth of the matter....the Mayor was going to keep the vast majority of the money and the victim would get a few hundred dollars at best and still be held in her sad circumstances....I and my local Investigator Partner arranged the deal where by upon his taking possession of the Victim, I would get the Paperwork confirming the Deal signed by the Mayor....I would tell the Mayor I had to take the Paperwork back to my Boss for his approval to release the money....and instead what we did was give the money directly to the Victim and my Partner drove to a great distance away for her to join family where she would be safe. The Mayor was not amused which was most heart warming knowing we helped the young girl and there was no recourse by the Mayor or Pimps.

The third case involved a Female Service Member who had engaged in a rowdy weekend of drunken partying with other members of her Unit where she engaged in Consensual Sex with at least two different Male Members of her Unit. She then filed a complaint of Rape and specified a particular staircase in a local hotel where said Rape took place. In not time we tracked down everyone that was involved, identified the two Males who had sexual relations with her....with both freely admitting that fact and who signed sworn statements to that effect. There was no physical evidence to be found. Intereviews of several Female Members of the Unit surfaced information that raised the fact the Victim had been voicing concerns about having used no contraceptive measures and feared the adverse effects a pregnancy would have upon. her marriage. In my civilian Police Department we would have "Unfounded" that complaint but the my DOD Organization forwarded that Report as a Rape Case where some Administrative Punishment was handed down.

The final case, was really sad. Young Female Service Member went out on the town with fellow Unit Members, lots of drinking, with one Male superior treating her to drinks all night....then forcing himself upon her, throwing her out of his car onto the side of the road. Unfortunately, she did not report the Rape until three days later when her Command observed her having a psychological breakdown in Ranks and she was counseled as to the cause of her behavior when she told of the assault. The Case went to General Court-Martial despite my telling the JAG Officer we did not have a Case due to the lack of witnesses, no forensic evidence despite a Ten Man Search team who walked many miles of highway looking for her discarded underwear. The Defendant was acqutted of all Charges to include the simple "Fraternization" Offense. What I saw the Defense Counsel do to that Young Woman in Court that day amounted to a Virtual Rape as his cross examination went way over the line. I know she felt betrayed by the system.....because she was. She was to be returned to the same unit....and have to serve under the same guy that had Raped her. I was able to convince the Base Commander, a Two Star General, she should be granted a transfer to some place away from our current location and he agreed and made that happen. I drove her to the airport which was a four hour drive.....and helped her as best I could. Had it been my Daughter I would have liked for someone to do that for her.

Four good examples of what we are talking about when we talk of "Rape" in the Military.

Each time....in my part of the US DOD....we placed a high priority on the cases and worked hard to fully document what transpired....not just to convict but to clear those of false allegations.
The good results of those Investigations did not always get used by Command to take genuinely appropriate actions....and that is my concern.

Command Influence, JAG Officers yielding to Command Influence or trying to play Perry Mason, Commanders who mis-use their position, all play a role in the Sexual Assault "problem" in the Military.....exactly as it does in the Civilian World.

Since the Met Police - responsible for protecting people and investigating crimes against them - failed miserably to investigate an alleged rape in 2004 by a taxi driver, who then went on to repeat his crimes many times until he was finally caught in 2008 despite being interviewed by police in 2007 - is it such a surprise that such offences go either unreported or un-investigated in the military?

John Worboys in case you don't remember his string of offences.

I am waiting for someone to advocate for the castration (chemical or physical) of all males in the military. Rape cases would plummet!

Hat, coat, door.

The UK HofC Defence Select Committee enquiry into Women in Armed Forces have taken evidence on sexual assault & rape.

This evidence demonstrates 'serious failings within the military justice system & Chain of Command'

This could easily be like the Met…

​​​​​​​
https://committees.parliament.uk/wri...ce/118879/pdf/

Albatross.....you omitted "virtual" castration which seems so in vogue these days especially with the very senior ranks.:rolleyes:

It’s heartbreaking to read the news today about Gunner Beck.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66982160

Given this happened around the same time of the issuance of the report in this thread, hopefully things have improved.

This is precisely one of the reasons that we have inclusivity programmes, to try to generate cohesive units that don’t contain sexual predators.

I am almost certain things haven’t improved.

No better in the Civil Service as I knew it: a very small proportion of blokes in authority positions usually getting away with getting it away.
Meanwhile the decent ones lusted just as much, but did not keep their brains in their trousers.

The good big difference is that there are now protocols in place which, whilst not sorting the problem, alleviate it to a degree. The predators remain despicable and the consequences for them are woefully inadequate.

Thank goodness for a free press, however risible some utterances are.

I don't know (though I have been out for a whole 6 months now) but in my areas the culture certainly had and was still changing. Saw things get stopped before they could become an issue and offenders dealt with appropriately.

Maybe it's down to where you work? Pockets survice in some places?

How did you change the culture out of curiosity? Was it personality or policy driven?

if this young woman hadn’t killed herself, I’m pretty sure no one would’ve intervened (or probably been aware). But she still would’ve been harassed by four separate WOs and NCOs.

are you sure sure that it’s “better” where you were?

Nine rapes reported over a 13 month period at Harrogate Military College that trains 16-17 year olds for military service!!!

WTF is going on?

Nine rapes at Harrogate military college reported to civilian police in 13 months (msn.com)

I didn't personally change the culture on my own. But I would say it was a combination of both policy and crucially a senior management team that adopted a zero tolerance policy to unsavoury behaviour. We also had a very open culture whereby people came forward when there were issues, both personally or third parties when they witnessed things.

Yeah I can I think. People were dislipined and removed were I worked for inappropriate behaviour, and people came forward with complaints when needed. Would we catch everything, probably not, no one is perfect, but I think we had a culture in the Org that everyone knew where they stood with this type of thing.

I'm not saying that it may be service wide, but in my corner, yes.

We need far more folk with an attitude like yours in positions of power to bring this abuse to an end.

Well done.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...tile-behaviour

Sixty women at MoD complain of widespread ‘toxic’ and ‘hostile’ behaviour

Sixty senior women at the UK’s Ministry of Defence have described a “hostile” and “toxic” culture at the department in a letter that alleges sexual assault, harassment and abuse by male colleagues.

The letter, seen by the Guardian, was sent last month by a large group of senior civil servants to the MoD’s permanent secretary alongside anonymised testimonies in which women described their personal experiences.

The accounts included claims that women had been “propositioned”, “groped” and “touched repeatedly” by male colleagues at the MoD in a workplace culture the civil servants said was “hostile to women as equal and respected partners”.

In the letter, which is marked “official-sensitive”, the group of “senior civilian women”said their “day-to-day professional lives are made difficult thanks to behaviours that would be considered toxic and inappropriate in public life, but that are tolerated at the MoD”.....

The accounts, which the letter said came from “senior civilian women in operational and security roles”, include:

• A woman who said she was groped at an MoD social function but was advised against complaining.
  
• A woman on an overseas posting who said she was “touched repeatedly on the lower back and legs by a senior military officer” but the “perpetrator went unpunished”.
  
• The claim thata group of military officers kept an “Excel spreadsheet that rated women” based on “their looks and what they thought they’d be like in bed”.
  
• A woman who said that before an evening event, a “defence senior” asked a woman “whether anal sex was an appropriate topic for his speech”.
• An account of how a military officer “propositioned” a woman “late at night in a corridor” on an overseas military base.

....In the testimonies, which are said to be “the tip of the iceberg” and illustrative of a “current problem, not a historic one”, women described feeling “sick with fear”, “sobbing in the bathroom”, and being subjected to “intimidating” behaviour.

According to the letter, attempts by women at the MoD to speak out against the behaviour “are generally minimised rather than listened to, and it is common knowledge among women that [the MoD’s] complaints system is not fit for purpose”.....

Among the accounts of sexual harassment and inappropriate behaviour included in the letter, women said they had felt uncomfortable and unsafe while working at the MoD’s headquarters, known as Main Building, in Whitehall.

“The groups of men staring is horrible,” said one woman, describing her experience of walking through one of the building’s main hallways. “The constant objectification and harassment is appalling. Behaviours that are completely unacceptable on public transport, for example, are accepted in pockets of Main Building.”

According to another woman, a sexual advance from a senior military official had a lasting effect on her. “It shattered my confidence and, I hate having to say this, I couldn’t help but question whether it was my fault: what is it about me that made this man think he could do this?......

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...ears-q3xdxkb0t

MoD bullying and discrimination payouts double in two years

Payouts for bullying, harassment and discrimination by the Ministry of Defence have more than doubled in what has been condemned as a “shocking” waste of talent and money.

The number of settlements, as well as the average amount paid to victims, has risen sharply over the past two years, it has emerged.….

New figures show that the number of payouts for bullying and harassment was fewer than five in 2020-21, rising to six in 2021-22 and doubling to 12 in 2022-23.

Over the same period, the average compensation sum went from £100,527 in 2020-21 to £228,669 the following year and £235,564 in 2022-23.

Civilian bullying complaints that were upheld jumped from 24 in 2020 to 33 this year. During the same period, the number of sexual harassment complaints from civilian staff rose from 6 to 16.

Among military personnel, there have been 298 bullying complaints upheld since 2020, as well as 111 relating to discrimination and a further 46 concerning harassment.

Andrew Murrison, the defence minister, revealed the figures in response to written questions by Maria Eagle, the shadow defence procurement minister. It lifts the lid on the extent of inappropriate behaviour that critics say is prolific within the MoD.…..

Eagle also raised concerns about the “deeply concerning trend within the MoD”. She said: “Ministers must lead from the top to root out unacceptable behaviour in the MoD and the armed forces.

“Labour in government will also legislate to establish an armed forces commissioner to act as a strong independent voice to improve the lives of serving personnel and their families.”….

Is harassment [I choose only one of the spectrum of unacceptable behaviours] a growing phenomenon, or was it ever thus, and is now a Me Too construct?

My last contact with the RAF was 1997, and in 41 years the nearest I came to victimhood was with several OCs Ops or OCs Flying leaning on me to moderate forecasts that did not suit their programme .............. cross wind, thunderstorm warning, that sort of thing.

The strength of that relationship was that Met was civilian, with an independent chain of command. Only in the most severe cases did the matter cause a Station Commander to ask for removal, and that was invariably acted on, as it should be.

LB. It was ever thus. I’ve been in the military for 37 years and have seen and heard of multiple occasions of harassment. Those people who have told me of their stories would be horrified to think that this was a “victimhood”. The difference between now and what happened years ago is that what would have constituted banter years ago (only by men) is now considered inappropriate behaviour. This has led to a culture where this is now much easier to report.
We now have, quite rightly, a zero tolerance attitude. The days of giving “dick soaps” as presents to females, and thinking that was harmless banter, is over.(in addition to much worse inappropriate behaviours).
This means, of course, that there has been an increase of reporting of such behaviours which looks like that the current RAF has a bigger problem. This is not the case. We have a culture now that such behaviour is not tolerated, which means that it is much less prevelent.
All of the females that I talked to, who underwent much worse cases of inappropriate behaviour in the 80s, 80s and 00s, never reported it. They felt they couldn’t, or wouldn’t have been supported had they done so.
We are in a better place. Society and the RAF values do not allow this to happen anymore and, should it do so, the harshest penalties are dished out.
I’m glad that you, as a civilian providing met for the RAF, was never subject to, nor observed, any such behaviour.