GPMG Puma fit - when did it change #2
 

I certainly fired the 2 handed version in May 81 when on the OCU.

CG

The correct aircraft fit for GPMG on both Puma and Wessex was the two handled one. You may have seen them used with the stock fitted instead but that was essentially for Northern Ireland only. Should we have come down as a result of IRA action we could easily remove it from the aircraft and use it in the ground role. So in answer there was no specific date for one or the other fits.

Thanks very much for replying and you’ve both answered my question, excellent.

That logic seems sound and would apply to most every location Helicopters are being flown in close proximity to enemy ground forces.

Yet, rarely is that done....the using of the standard Infantry style butt stock.

During my time on Chinooks we only had the aircraft style double grip type trigger assembly and the Huey Lift Ships had the same.

Huey Gun Ship Door gunners used the Infantry style as did the LOH (Loach Scout) aircraft as the Gunners aboard those two type of aircraft used the "Free Gun" method rather than the pintle mount.

In my Unit we were more prone to resort to Rifles, Pistols, and M-79 Grenade Launchers for self protection on the Ground but were prepared and trained to dismount the two sometimes three M-60's (all with double grip trigger assembly) for added firepower. Our real hope was a rapid arrival of other helicopters bearing QRF Infantry or arrival of Armored Units that we were supporting when we were shot down or forced down due to a mechanical failure. We carried about two thousand rounds of 7.62mm Ammo for Door Guns so we would have had plenty to shoot. In our case...if we could get off a good Mayday Call....put out our location accurately....there was usually plenty of help nearby that could respond. The common practice was upon hearing a Downed Aircraft Call....everyone nearby turned and headed to the location until someone arrived on scene and took command of the recovery/rescue/reinforce effort and called off the need for further assistance. It was most comforting to know help was on the way....as it got rather lonely standing next to the aircraft listening to the tinkling of the cooling exhaust stacks and the pounding of your heart in your Ears....and no sounds of Rotor Blades banging towards you. It never happened when you had onboard a full platoon of Infantry that could act as your own personal Security Element.

Great answer sasless. Totally irrelevant but great answer.

AFAIK, the Lynx fit was always with the stock, for the reasons given.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....9dbe1c501d.jpg

Diginagain - agreed, when the AAC were running door-gunner courses at Wallop in the late 90's, part of the final test was to have to dismount and engage targets like an infanteer.

Did you have the strap stashed somewhere onboard?
I can’t remember ever looking at the gun in all the lifts I had, but I like the idea of the loading getting one of the pilots to lug the tripod around and the other cradling the C2 sight!

That's because the AAC often got shot down.... :E

The only ones I can remember on the OCU had the two handles, many a white bedsheet was killed by them.

Wessex were quite well armed in NI with a door GPMG fit, an SLR in the cabin just below the cockpit, and a SMG stowage on the pilots window frame just in front of the cockpit doors, just do not decide to take your SMG with you when collecting / acquiring a Christmas Tree. :E

In fact even with the stock fitted, we fitted it into the two handled fit, you would just slide it out and run away bravely if we had to!!!!! Sorry go into defensive positions and protect the aircraft.

Nutty, I doubt a single bedsheet got scared!

CG

Seems it was open season on both RAF and Army Helicopters.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...g_The_Troubles

The media didn't know whose was which helicopter most of the time - many RAF aircraft described as Army helicopters - typical journos. And that list isn't very accurate for the 80's.

I think there’s a few missing from the 90’s, too.
They were “interesting”times.

Was Wessex mid 90s, we had the GPMG, pilots had an HK-53 each, carried between the seats on a mounting on the coupling gearbox, a pistol each, and crewman also carried an SA-80 with bipod, LSW maybe?

The worst thing about the situation was the early morning visit to the armoury, collecting weapons and ammo and loading all the magazines out in the dark and the rain. Then the reverse at cease work. I think I was more concerned about the consequences of accidentally dropping and losing a round during that melee more than loosing the whole lot off in defence.

Shy, when I was out there we had a block inspection, opening the very top lockers you couldn't reach i was confronted with some 7.62 blanks and i think the odd full one, panic mode set in, what do I do with them, chucking them out the window was soon dispelled with as not a good idea, leaving them in situ wasn't a good idea either as they may be discovered on the inspection, burying them came to mind but the thought of getting caught doing it also kicked that into touch so I took them to the armoury,,, sheepishly I explained what I had found.. Ohh they will come in handy, we are often short of the odd round was the reply...

Fast forward to Bruggen where we were live armed with some mags full of ammo sealed in some really thick plastic, "to be opened if required".. you signed for x number of mags with 20 rounds in, come the time they were near life ex we would get them on our annual GDT shoot, it took us about 10 mins to chop through the plastic to get a mag out, just as well we never needed them. then the good old "in your own time" 20 rounds.. 16, 17 click....... turns out a lot of them obviously filled by bored armourers tasked with filling xyz amount of mags several years prior and never had the 20 rounds in you signed for...

Nutty, difference was that we were flying around in what the IRA considered (and were publicised as) prime targets.