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-   -   MOD Diversity Chief (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/640771-mod-diversity-chief.html)

Toadstool 13th Jun 2021 09:45


Originally Posted by minigundiplomat (Post 11061206)
Quick question,

with it being 2021 and the dawning of a new age of diversity, could a male identity as a female during a fitness test, achieve a pass at the lower standard and realise they actually identify as a male after all?

I will ask at my next fitness test in two years. Or maybe I will do the Rockport walk!

gcal 13th Jun 2021 09:49

Daily Fail
 
The article is from the Daily Fail and though I am sure it may be used for cat litter I certainly wouldn't.
For one horrible and unforgivable moment I hovered my mouse over the link.
If this role does exist then many of the comments on here explain why it is necessary.

PPRuNeUser0211 13th Jun 2021 11:21


Originally Posted by Cyberhacker (Post 11059662)
I offer Nurse - males are still nurses, despite the overtly female assumption

I'd beg to say that Nurse is not an overtly female title in the language sense, just that there is a strong association with females in the profession. Exactly the same problem that the majority of male dominated professions have had - say for instance "engineer" 50 years ago. That's more of an issue of changing perception, which is exactly why RAF recruiting ads have a higher proportion of female and ethnic minority servicefolk in, much to the horror of ppruners - because to a lot of those outside they perceive "Air Force Officer" as a white male job, in the same way that you've interpreted nurse as "female". Takes time to change this associations.

(Fwiw the Royal college of Nursing reports 10.8% of registered nurses as male).

Lima Juliet 13th Jun 2021 11:43

On the plan to swindle the fitness test, sadly it won’t work. They are “Male” and “Female” standards.


The UK government defines sex as:
  • referring to the biological aspects of an individual as determined by their anatomy, which is produced by their chromosomes, hormones and their interactions
  • generally male or female
  • something that is assigned at birth
The UK government defines gender as:
  • a social construction relating to behaviours and attributes based on labels of masculinity and femininity; gender identity is a personal, internal perception of oneself and so the gender category someone identifies with may not match the sex they were assigned at birth
  • where an individual may see themselves as a man, a woman, as having no gender, or as having a non-binary gender – where people identify as somewhere on a spectrum between man and woman

So unless you are going to have your X and Y chromosomes fiddled with by some unknown science (you can’t currently change these), you are kind of stuck with what you have got!!! So the ‘sex change’ is really not a sex change at all - as you can have your male or female gonads removed, but you will still be technically male or female. If you choose to identify as a man or a woman, or whatever else, then you will still have to complete the fitness standard of the male or female - regardless of your gonad status!

cattletruck 13th Jun 2021 11:56

So the term "gender" is now a social construct, who would have thought. Wouldn't referring to this desk bound MOD Chief as 'er indoors' be another social construct?

[email protected] 13th Jun 2021 12:01

Maya Forstater lost her job for tweeting, quite correctly, that you can't change your biological sex no matter how much you want to identify as anything else - she has won her appeal though.

Lima Juliet 13th Jun 2021 14:03


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11061335)
Maya Forstater lost her job for tweeting, quite correctly, that you can't change your biological sex no matter how much you want to identify as anything else - she has won her appeal though.

Rightly so. That quote above was from the ONS’s policy on the subject: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/envir...der/2019-02-21



Sex and gender are different concepts that are often used interchangeably. The UK government refers to sex as being biologically defined, and gender as a social construct that is an internal sense of self, whether an individual sees themselves as a man or a woman, or another gender identity. They encompass many different identities and may be non-binary (that is, not a man or a woman).

212man 13th Jun 2021 14:32


If you choose to identify as a man or a woman, or whatever else, then you will still have to complete the fitness standard of the male or female - regardless of your gonad status!
It would seem several international sporting bodies disagree, including the IOC and IWF. Laurel Hubbard? Rachel McKinnon?

Lima Juliet 13th Jun 2021 18:00

212man

Yes, and I think it’s wrong. Give them a chromosome check to decide which race they can compete in :ok:

Or remove sex type from sport all together.

212man 13th Jun 2021 18:31


Originally Posted by Lima Juliet (Post 11061471)
212man

Yes, and I think it’s wrong. Give them a chromosome check to decide which race they can compete in :ok:

Or remove sex type from sport all together.

I agree - wasn’t defending it. I used to be a county class 100/200m runner in my early teens, and well remember watching the women’s 100m final in the Commonwealth games around 1982. I was about 15 and couldn’t believe that if I’d been in the race I might have finished 5th!

John Eacott 14th Jun 2021 05:12

I guess we won't have nicknames/callsigns any longer?

Frosty: an RAN helicopter driver who was of Japanese ancestry, hence a 'Nip in the air'

Thrush: a general term for an irritating twit

And so on: add your favourites here :ok:

Training Risky 14th Jun 2021 09:14


Originally Posted by gcal (Post 11061280)
The article is from the Daily Fail and though I am sure it may be used for cat litter I certainly wouldn't.
For one horrible and unforgivable moment I hovered my mouse over the link.
If this role does exist then many of the comments on here explain why it is necessary.

You may not like the Mail, but at least it is shining a light on mismanagement of public money and posts like this.

The comments here are merely people expressing a legitimate opinion. The fact you don't like what is being said is your problem, not ours.

The Helpful Stacker 15th Jun 2021 14:39


Originally Posted by pba_target (Post 11055032)
I'd be interested to know, out of the long list of posters above, how many would sign up to a job title with an overtly female title with no male equivalent. How many male rearcrew would have signed up to be a "Crewlady" or techies to be a "Senior Aircraftswoman (Tech)" if there was no male equivalent?

If I were to push for promotion to a grade higher I'd be a Matron.

I can't see the NHS changing this title anytime soon

tolip1 20th Jun 2021 18:21


Originally Posted by Melchett01 (Post 11054301)
I’ve served with blacks whites and every colour in between, gays, straight, transsexuals, and just generally confused sorts. All anybody cares about when the rounds are flying is can you do your job and not get everyone killed.

And what I find more offensive as a member of a fighting Service is that my Service cares more about my being in date for health & safety and D&I training than it does about the last time I fired a weapon. And just looking at her photo and reading her bio you get the impression she is one of nature’s perpetually offended who will find offence in everything but not actually question how such offence makes doing our job of defending the country easier or more effective.

Can you honestly not see the irony of you describing exactly how offended you get, and in the next breath complaining about someone getting offended too much?

SASless 20th Jun 2021 18:40


Can you honestly not see the irony of you describing exactly how offended you get, and in the next breath complaining about someone getting offended too much?


The question is how does all this "woke" business improve combat effectiveness of a military force....not who is offended or triggered or has their knickers in a wad over the use of some pronoun or rank while addressing others.

Is this latest surrender to Political Correctness actually in any way going to make the RAF or any other military force better at achieving its reason for being.....that being defending the Nation in combat with an aggressor enemy.

I see all of this as being a huge distraction from that mission....the training it requires to be prepared......assets that would otherwise be available.....and worst of all....it brings division among the Troops as they all deal with this.

Anything that dulls the point of the Spear is bad for the Force holding that Spear.

cynicalint 20th Jun 2021 19:28

Col. Jessop's rants were spot on. It was his ordering an illegal "Code Red" and trying to cover it up that was wrong. Current trends and attempts at equlity legislation could unfortunately, sooner or later, lead to such a situation where command cannot take remedial steps about a dysfunctional subordinate without breaking some Hate Law or Equality legislation. We need to differentiate between correct discipline and bullying and prevent hurt feelings from creating a non-functioning fighting force.

highflyer40 20th Jun 2021 20:24


Originally Posted by SASless (Post 11065315)
The question is how does all this "woke" business improve combat effectiveness of a military force....not who is offended or triggered or has their knickers in a wad over the use of some pronoun or rank while addressing others.

Is this latest surrender to Political Correctness actually in any way going to make the RAF or any other military force better at achieving its reason for being.....that being defending the Nation in combat with an aggressor enemy.

I see all of this as being a huge distraction from that mission....the training it requires to be prepared......assets that would otherwise be available.....and worst of all....it brings division among the Troops as they all deal with this.

Anything that dulls the point of the Spear is bad for the Force holding that Spear.

The days of defending a nation against an aggressive force are long past us, at least for first world nations. Economic war is much more practicable and successful, and you don’t need an army to defend from that.

Can you honestly even conceive of Russia or China invading the UK? Wouldn’t happen in a million years. Get rid of most of the 3 services and bolster the coast guard slightly to protect from smugglers.

cynicalint 20th Jun 2021 20:32


The days of defending a nation against an aggressive force are long past us, at least for first world nations
They said exactly the same in 1938. Even earlier, - Si vis pacem, para bellum ( Publis Flavius Vegetius Renatus - 4th or 5th century AD),
The only thing that changes are the idiots that say there is no threat of war,. when the biggest threat to war is the attitude that no threat exists.

highflyer40 20th Jun 2021 20:51


Originally Posted by cynicalint (Post 11065353)
They said exactly the same in 1938. Even earlier, - Si vis pacem, para bellum ( Publis Flavius Vegetius Renatus - 4th or 5th century AD),
The only thing that changes are the idiots that say there is no threat of war,. when the biggest threat to war is the attitude that no threat exists.

There was no world economy in those eras as well. You can much easier and successfully conquer someone economically than militarily nowadays. With no need to occupy.

cynicalint 20th Jun 2021 21:04

The Roman economy WAS the known world economy, but they still needed boots on the ground...


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