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Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 11028471)
Surely you're not suggesting that Vlad might have some cyber-geeks posting pro-russian views on social media? Whatever next, interfering in elections.????...........:)
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Originally Posted by fitliker
(Post 11029193)
Ironically , there are in the Catholic countries that invaded Orthodox Russia in 1600 and occupied Moscow for 13 years .
"Integrates approximately 28,000 multinational forces from 26 nations to conduct nearly simultaneous operations across more than 30 training areas in 12 countries." "Demonstrates our ability to serve as a strategic security partner in the western Balkans and Black Sea regions while sustaining our abilities in northern Europe, the Caucasus, Ukraine and Africa." source: https://www.europeafrica.army.mil/DefenderEurope/ also, considering that Turkey has been a NATO country for more than half a century and they have a rather formidable size army, it sounds a bit lame to state that NATO presence would be uplifted heavily in the Black Sea area due to this exercise. |
https://archive.org/details/EDIS-SWDPC-01-04
The Trumpeter Landfrey’s recorded on a wax cylinder who sounded the charge for the Light Brigade . Apologies for the thread drift , but the old trumpeter sounded interesting . |
Thank you to the few who brought original thoughts to this thread. ATC Watcher great insight and still very valid today. Nato creeping ever closer to Russia's borders, is only amplifying this feeling.
Other posters are simply regurgitating the old cold war era lines: the commies are coming, the commies are coming!!!" Now it is just the Russians are coming... Repeating it over and over again does not make it true, although many will believe it. Goebbels would be so proud! So no point in wasting time with such age old trope. As for new posters, I assume Asturias56 is speaking of me. Last time I checked, I have been a member of this forum, far longer than he has. Number of posts does not make you new... Anyway back to the topic: Nato and the West calls for Russia to de-escalate are a bit rich. As stated before: 1. Ukraine moved forces to the contact line, long before Russia started mobilizing. 2. Ukrainian forces are at the contact line, for their spring offensive on Donbas, the majority of the Russian forces are in known training areas. 3. Ukraine has not implemented the Minsk agreements. 4. Neither Germany nor France has held Ukraine accountable for the breach of the Minsk agreements. So to de-escalate rests on Ukraine and the west, not on Russia. Implement the Minsk agreements and peace will reign within and with Ukraine. |
Nato creeping ever closer to Russia's borders, is only amplifying this feeling Now Russia crossing borders into other countries? There seems to be a track record of that. |
Originally Posted by Aegis8
(Post 11029735)
Goebbels would be so proud!
Why Ukraine is not allowed to move their troops within their borders, but russia is? |
Originally Posted by Aegis8
(Post 11029735)
Now it is just the Russians are coming... Repeating it over and over again does not make it true, although many will believe it. Goebbels would be so proud! So no point in wasting time with such age old trope.
Same for the Russians and the Nazis coming to a nice agreement and invading Poland. I'm sure Goebbels was very proud of Russia at that point. |
"Ukrainian forces are at the contact line, "
it is their country - it isn't part of Russia |
This a very volatile part of the world with many ethnic groups demanding autonomy, many having suffered genocide and ethnic cleansing over the centuries, we havn’t heard much about it because of Covid dominating the news but tens of thousands of troops are facing peach other in Nagorno Karabakh with Russia trying to stop a flare up again. Ukraine is just one of those regions, NATO and the US would well do to keep out of the squabbles, leave them to settle their own disputes. Most of Russia’s neighbours dislike them but that can be said of most of the US neighbours as well, it’s Russia’s backyard let them sort out the disputes and with extremist Islam in the mix the best of luck with that.
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President Biden decides to cancel the deployment of two US warships to the Black Sea so as not to increase tensions - yet the UK is going ahead with deployment of a Type 45 plus a Type 23.
Article in The Sunday Times:- British warships head for Black Sea as Russian troops mass on Ukrainian border Royal Navy warships will sail for the Black Sea next month as tensions continue to rise between Ukrainian and Russian forces. Putting the ships off the coast of Ukraine is intended to show solidarity with Kiev and Nato allies in the region after the President Biden decided to cancel the deployment of two American warships to the Black Sea last week for fear of escalating the crisis over the massing of Russian troops. One Type 45 destroyer armed with anti-aircraft missiles and an anti-submarine Type 23 frigate will peel off from the Royal Navy’s carrier task group in the Mediterranean and head through the Bosphorus into the Black Sea, according to senior naval sources. RAF F-35B Lightning stealth jets and Merlin submarine-hunting helicopters are to stand ready on the task group’s flag ship, the carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth, to support the warships in the Black Sea should they be threatened by Russian warships, submarines or aircraft. HMS Queen Elizabeth has to stay in the Mediterranean because an international treaty prohibits aircraft carriers from entering the Black Sea. The Royal Navy announced in February, before the current crisis, that the carrier’s supporting warships and aircraft would carry out the missions into the Black Sea as part of HMS Queen Elizabeth’s deployment to the Far East. The Ministry of Defence confirmed on Friday that the naval foray would go ahead despite the US decision to keep its warships out of the crisis zone. “Operational planning continues and this still includes the Black Sea activity,” said a senior defence source. “The US decision will have no bearing on Carrier Strike Group’s 2021 plans.” This apparent divergence between London and Washington follows the admission on Friday by General Sir Nick Carter, chief of defence staff, that the British government disagreed with Biden’s decision to withdraw all US and Nato troops from Afghanistan by September. Tension has been rising since Moscow ordered a troop build-up near Ukraine’s eastern border late last month. Russian and Ukrainian gunboats were involved in a stand-off near the Crimean coast on Thursday. RAF RC-135 Rivet Joint eavesdropping aircraft have flown eight missions over Ukraine to monitor Russian military communications since the start of the month. Four RAF Typhoon fighter jets will fly to Romania from RAF Lossiemouth this week to take part in Nato air policing patrols over the Black Sea, and hundreds of soldiers will head to Ukraine in the summer for a joint exercise, dubbed Cossack Mace, with the country’s border guard paramilitary force. |
Originally Posted by Aegis8
(Post 11029735)
As for new posters, I assume Asturias56 is speaking of me. Last time I checked, I have been a member of this forum, far longer than he has. Number of posts does not make you new...
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Ah. Sleeper agent then... |
Originally Posted by Aegis8 View Post
As for new posters, I assume Asturias56 is speaking of me. Last time I checked, I have been a member of this forum, far longer than he has. Number of posts does not make you new... Well 22 posts in 13 years on PPrune is almost certainly unique - but all of them have been recent and 20 of the 22 are on this one subject in the last 2 weeks. You can see why there is a degree of scepticism about your background. Long term NATO sceptics like etudiant etc post regularly on a wide range of subjects (as do the aggressive folk on the other side of the argument). I just have a suspicious mind............ |
Originally Posted by Deltasierra010
(Post 11030085)
Most of Russia’s neighbours dislike them but that can be said of most of the US neighbours as well, it’s Russia’s backyard let them sort out the disputes and with extremist Islam in the mix the best of luck with that.
I think as regards my immediate neighbours I'd much rather be Canada or Mexico with the USA next door than Estonia, Ukraine, or Georgia .... or Sweden with modern day Russia on my border. There's a difference between having a neighbour that irritates you - which seems to be what you imply dislike means in North America - and one you live in fear of - which seems to be what you imply dislike means east of Western Europe. |
Will Russia invoke the UN charter to defend it citizens living in their ancestral homelands ?
Chairman Mao made a similar threat when he said that according to the Chinese constitution wherever Chinese people’s live is considered Chinese Sovereign soil . Will the Russians use a similar statement to justify creating an autonomous region in the east for Russians ? You know it is gonna get big when the Pope is talking Peace . Ukrainian Catholics against Russian Orthodox . Might create another bigger schism between the two churches . Bigger than the great schism that lost Constantinople . |
Peter Hitchens writing in the Mail on Sunday today sticks to his constant position that that the West are picking a needless fight with Russia? More about how Russia is a poor country with an economy no more robust or bigger than that of Italy?
FB |
Will Russia invoke the UN charter to defend it citizens living in their ancestral homelands ? For many older Russians the Crimea holds a magnetic hold. That may well be the tipping point despite any rationality, those that speak Russian will surely know the immortal line in Brat 2. Doesn't help that Ukraine has a comedian (literally) as President, even (previously) Willy Wonka had more competence. I lived there three years and nothing surprises me about the place. |
Originally Posted by Deltasierra010
(Post 11030085)
Most of Russia’s neighbours dislike them but that can be said of most of the US neighbours as well,
Let's take a short look at history regarding the treatment of Ukraine by Russia and one of it's stronger western neighbor's for instance. I don't pretend that the US hasn't treated a few of it's smaller neighbors like an Amsterdam window saleslady, but we haven't cut their throats and fed them to the dogs like Russia has treated it's neighbors at times. |
Originally Posted by WhatsaLizad?
(Post 11030441)
One of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read on PPrune and pretty much anywhere on the internet.
Let's take a short look at history regarding the treatment of Ukraine by Russia and one of it's stronger western neighbor's for instance. I don't pretend that the US hasn't treated a few of it's smaller neighbors like an Amsterdam window saleslady, but we haven't cut their throats and fed them to the dogs like Russia has treated it's neighbors at times. |
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