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-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

Mogwi 2nd Apr 2022 15:44


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11209617)
this raises the question: what is the oldest western weapon still in active duty within western military (by design and/or manufacturing date)?
BUFF takes the date to 1950's, anything more vintage?

A certain gun club used to have crossbows in their armoury. Certainly in use in 1982; silent but very deadly and put the wind up Johnny Foreigner!

Mog

Beamr 2nd Apr 2022 16:10


Originally Posted by Mogwi (Post 11209683)
A certain gun club used to have crossbows in their armoury. Certainly in use in 1982; silent but very deadly and put the wind up Johnny Foreigner!

Mog

Certainly those crossbows were of more contemporary design?

How about revolvers, apparently the U.S. air force is only just about to give up on their Smith & Wesson model 15's which root back to 1899.

https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/sw-mode...aving-service/

HOVIS 2nd Apr 2022 17:46

Isn't the USS Constitution still a fully commissioned navy vessel?

Tartiflette Fan 2nd Apr 2022 18:06

Mention of the Starstreak prompts me to ask how long the training for use of that system would be ? I'm guessing that no British military would be deployed in Ukraine, so the trainees would have to come over the border into a NATO country for this training.

Another query is that although this missile is spoken of as being a MANPAD, I have never seen it pictured in a configuration that meets that spec. The Thales YT video shows it vehicle mounted , or as a ground-based launcher of three which is certainly not man-portable: never shown as a single unit.

MPN11 2nd Apr 2022 18:17


Originally Posted by HOVIS (Post 11209730)
Isn't the USS Constitution still a fully commissioned navy vessel?

Yes, but HMS Victory is bigger … so there!

Meanwhile, the Yeomen Warders’ pikes in the Tower of London … oh, forget it!

Arfur Dent 2nd Apr 2022 18:48

Putin suffers from the same syndrome as our friend Adolf. He is a self styled "chosen one" and basically kills anyone close to him who doesn't agree with "the plan". You don't get anywhere with " yes men" Vlad. You should listen to your Military otherwise you will repeat the stupidity of Hitler.
Amazing how bloody daft some of these people are - thank Goodness!!

MAINJAFAD 2nd Apr 2022 19:19


Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan (Post 11209739)
Mention of the Starstreak prompts me to ask how long the training for use of that system would be ? I'm guessing that no British military would be deployed in Ukraine, so the trainees would have to come over the border into a NATO country for this training.

Another query is that although this missile is spoken of as being a MANPAD, I have never seen it pictured in a configuration that meets that spec. The Thales YT video shows it vehicle mounted , or as a ground-based launcher of three which is certainly not man-portable: never shown as a single unit.

Didn't look hard enough.


ORAC 2nd Apr 2022 21:06

If you check SM this is being confirmed/repeated in every town and village, as well as the outskirts of Kyiv.

Basically, the Russian forces have been executing every male of military age, between 18 and 65, as they retreat…

And we stand by, because we worry about the price of gas.

punkalouver 2nd Apr 2022 21:08


Originally Posted by Arfur Dent (Post 11209754)
Putin suffers from the same syndrome as our friend Adolf. He is a self styled "chosen one" and basically kills anyone close to him who doesn't agree with "the plan". You don't get anywhere with " yes men" Vlad. You should listen to your Military otherwise you will repeat the stupidity of Hitler.
Amazing how bloody daft some of these people are - thank Goodness!!

Hitler and Putin decided to go forward with their plans(they were always going to regardless of advice given). I do say thank goodness, that Hitler did not listen to his military and did things like overstretch his armed forces. He never built much in the way of bombers(imagine if he had). He attacked Russia which sealed his doom(good thing as they are much less populated today than they would have been meaning they are a weaker country versus it being us).

I very much enjoy reading about the corruption in Russia and how it affects their armed forces. It is a huge strategic disadvantage. I hope they stay corrupt. I believe China has a lot of corruption as well. Good. I like the fact that both countries seem to have an inflexibility in thinking that does not allow nimble decisions to be made on the spot by lower-down personnel. Another strategic weakness. I suspect China is getting a good lesson on the hazards of invading a determined country. Taiwan really does need to be provided some good subs to sink carriers and invasion fleets(or else they will need a timely divine wind - if you know your history).

There are some bad people in the world and those who have not embraced the mantra of Peace Through Strength are extremely naive - and dangerous for the west, yet they get elected. It has been obvious for 20 years that Putin and the Russians are a huge threat, yet when a well-known person tells them to cancel Nordstream 2 and spend 2% of GDP on defense, they call him the new enemy because he makes nasty tweets.

Ask yourself something, how can anybody be so incredibly stupid to let countries in western Europe become energy dependent on a huge country running around invading neighbours to take over territory, setting up groups to launch computer attacks around the world, and poisoning people in places in the UK(and even the leader of Ukraine). Yet these people who think they are smarter than the rest of us implement policies like shutting down perfectly good nuclear power plants for no good reason and chasing foolish dreams that result in each of us literally funding this war for Russia with each unit of energy consumed. It is the epitome of stupidity. Unfortunately,, there are a significant amount of people willing to sacrifice our security for fantasy ideas and believe that if we are Neville Chamberlain nice, it will be returned. And soon after the lessons are learned, they are forgotten again.

Let me be clear. If the west was weak, Russia would do to us what they are doing to Ukraine(which has had much of their success to to weaponry from the west). And there is a bigger rival out there. Something to remember the next time there is a choice in a budget between an F-35 and another feel good cause.

rattman 2nd Apr 2022 21:29


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11209530)
Thanks, very interesting. Although the usefulness of all that WW2 era kit is next to nothing unless someone decides to arm millions of men with anything at hand and have them walk en masse to the front line. And that would not work anyway.

It is somewhat puzzling that they've decided not to use the most produced assault weapon in the world, the AK-47, but instead have provided the Donbass troops with the M91's and maxims. I've no idea what should be thought of it.

Because they sold the Ak-47 to pay for their dacha's,

Mark Felton just released a video on these old weapons where he said ukraine has 35K maxims in storage


HOVIS 2nd Apr 2022 21:29


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11209796)
If you check SM this is being confirmed/repeated in every town and village, as well as the outskirts of Kyiv.

Basically, the Russian forces have been executing every male of military age, between 18 and 65, as they retreat…









And we stand by, because we worry about the price of gas.

As has been said many times, we stand by because we worry about the price of intervention. It has nothing to do with gas.

NutLoose 2nd Apr 2022 22:30

Write up of the Ukrainian Airforce experiences so far, it’s a bit long to copy verbatim so please read it here.

https://babel.ua/ru/texts/77251-the-...um=publication

WB627 2nd Apr 2022 22:52


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11209617)
this raises the question: what is the oldest western weapon still in active duty within western military (by design and/or manufacturing date)?
BUFF takes the date to 1950's, anything more vintage?

Try the M1917 Enfield, the American modified Enfield P14 of 1914 AKA the No 3 Rifle, which is still used by the Sirius Dog Sled Patrol in Greenland which is an elite Danish naval unit. They use a a bolt action rifle as it is more reliable in the extreme cold than automatic rifles, quite important when you have an angry Pola Bear who sees you as their next meal bearing (no pun intended) down on you.

I have used a P14 from 1914 re-barrelled from .303 to 7.62 and modified to single shot at Bisley at ranges up to 800yds. It is a lovely rifle to use with. It has a modified Mauser action, which is so much better than the Lee Enfield No 4 action, that I have also used, that I wondered how we ever won a war with the Lee Enfield!


NutLoose 2nd Apr 2022 23:01

Russian soldiers returning to Belarus from around Kyiv are posting home their looted goods, therefore their identity will be recorded or that of their families. A possible source to identify those involved in war crimes?


NutLoose 2nd Apr 2022 23:08


Originally Posted by WB627 (Post 11209828)
Try the M1917 Enfield, the American modified Enfield P14 of 1914 AKA the No 3 Rifle, which is still used by the Sirius Dog Sled Patrol in Greenland which is an elite Danish naval unit. They use a a bolt action rifle as it is more reliable in the extreme cold than automatic rifles, quite important when you have an angry Pola Bear who sees you as their next meal bearing (no pun intended) down on you.

I have used a P14 from 1914 re-barrelled from .303 to 7.62 and modified to single shot at Bisley at ranges up to 800yds. It is a lovely rifle to use with. It has a modified Mauser action, which is so much better than the Lee Enfield No 4 action, that I have also used, that I wondered how we ever won a war with the Lee Enfield!

The Current 7.62 Russian round was designed in 1891 and is still used.

https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/7.62%C3%9754mmR



The 7.62×54mmR is one of the oldest cartridges still in use by any military in the world, and one of the few rimmed bottleneck cartridges still in common use today.The Russian military uses it in the Dragunov SVD, as well as other sniper rifles and general purpose machine guns.


megan 3rd Apr 2022 04:23

Kenyan representative to the UN, Martin Kimani, bravo Sir.


Beamr 3rd Apr 2022 06:25


Originally Posted by etudiant (Post 11209849)
.

Separately, I have to doubt the claim of economic collapse or of food shortages.

Russian trade balance is positive on fish, oils and grains/cereals. On everything else the trade balance is negative. In essence, if Putin is jesus and feeds the population with fish and bread, ok. But will the Russians settle for it?

source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ussia-by-type/

On economics: if the trade balance on oils, fish and grain plummets it has direct impact on economy. Amongst other sanctioned items.

admikar 3rd Apr 2022 08:27

How many of you want to bet that, at most, two years after all this is done there will be business as usual?
Capitalism has no room for morality. What is happening in Ukraine is bad, but so is in Palestine (by Israel), Pakistan, China, ME and West is conducting business with them without a hitch.
China needs resources for their own economy and they are getting all those African and S. American sources under their own control. West will need to deal with Russia again.

Beamr 3rd Apr 2022 08:31


Originally Posted by admikar (Post 11209920)
. West will need to deal with Russia again.

You are right, it is as unavoidable as Putins death, Shoigus death, Peskovs death. The mad dictator will eventually die and there will be new regime in Russia. It is up to russians if it is the kind of regime that the rest of the world could trust even a little.

Old-Duffer 3rd Apr 2022 09:31

NutLoose please can I suggest a small flaw about using postal services to track identity of Russian in the postal system. The Belarus is essentially enemy territory and might be reluctant to provide evidence against Russian troops.

Old Duffer


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