The BHR is a Wasp class LHD - the class totalled 8 vessels.

They are being replaced by the America class LHA's of which there are 2 completed , one building and 8 more on order. Most of these will be like the 3rd vessel Bougainville with a well deck which was not installed on the first two, Far better to order an extra LHA I'd have thought - the BHR is well over 20 years old

The third of the America class Bougainville isn't due until 2024.and the contract for long lead items on the fourth was only signed in May this year. So it would be a very long wait for a twelfth.

The America Class were initially orded to replace the 5 Tarawa Class ships and are based on the design of USS Makin Island the last of the Wasp Class (which entered service in 2009).

AFAIKtwo Tarawa Class ships are in reserve Peleliu only since 2015 so she might be a gap fill option.

As an aside I am sure others here may remember being told that, with nothing to inhibit free surface effect, 3 inches of water on the main hangar deck of the Mighty Ark or Big E could have caused capsize.

Footage of helo firefighting effort - dropping (and often missing) with thimbles of water:


What they need is a CL-415 doing circuits in the harbour...

A friend had a job once which involved observing (physically watching) ANY hazardous work (e.g. grinding or welding etc.) on a ship undergoing maintainance in port.

He couldn't believe what he was seeing once when a guy was grinding at a high level and stood on a 20 litre drum of thinners to reach the desired height...

They may be a bit pissed off now the fire is out :eek:

POI Melting point of Carbon Steel is around 2500-2800º F or 1371-1540º C I didn't pick up what unit the 1000º was big difference F or C.

The ship is toast but it looks like they got the fire out. No more smoke.
Cool thing and respect.

I couldn't remember the exact depth but I knew it didn't take many inches. When any hot work such as welding was being carried out on the ship they would always be accompanied by a man with a fire extinguisher, either in the same compartment or on the other side of the bulkhead, and would stay for another 30 minutes after the hot work had finished.

Still burning
 

I live in San Diego although a good distance away from the Naval Base. Local news reports are that the fire is still burning. When I went outside this morning at around 8 am, there was a distinct smell of burnt plastic in the air.
Here's a report from our local Channel 8 news updated at 12:30 pm today https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/lo...9-ed37a99f494a

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...nhomme-richard

Navy Says At Least One Fire Continues To Burn On The USS Bonhomme Richard

U.S. Navy Rear Admiral Philip Sobeck, head of Expeditionary Strike Group Three, says that the USS Bonhomme Richard is stable and structurally safe despite a still ongoing fire onboard the Wasp class amphibious assault ship. The vessel has now been burning continuously for more than 48 hours now and has produced sustained temperatures of at least 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit in some areas......The key new details from this latest press conference are:
...

• The ship is stable and the structure is safe.
• No major damage to the ship's four main engineering spaces.
• No threat to the ship's fuel tanks at present.
• The fuel tanks are well below any of the remaining active fires or heat sources, so any risk to them at this point is low.
• The ship has salt water-filled compensation tanks that also help keep the fuel tanks cool.
• There is at least one active fire in a forward area of the ship.
• Firefighters had been unable to get to those spaces until today.
• There is another heat source that could be another fire aft.
• These two areas are isolated from each other.
• Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron Three (HSC-3), based at nearby Naval Air Station North Island, has conducted more than 1,200 water bucket drops, in total.
• In addition to other external firefighting operations, these drops have been essential in allowing firefighters to actually get on the ship.
• 61 personnel have been injured, in total, so far, 38 sailors and 23 civilians.
• None of those individuals are hospitalized.
• An explosion occurred while the crew was securing the space where the initial fire had broken out before they could safely energize the fire suppression system.
• The fire spread rapidly from the front to the rear of the ship.
• Navy is working with San Diego authorities to step up monitoring of potential adverse environmental impacts.
• Coast Guard is prepared to respond to any potential environmental issues, including an oil spill.
• No visible evidence of oil spill at present.
• Hope that all fires will be out within the next 24 hours.
• Too early to tell the full extent of the damage.

The Navy's position that the ship, which has been visibly listing, is stable and structurally sound is a significant and positive development. There had been concerns that areas that had been exposed to persistent temperatures in excess of 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit could be compromised.

Still, the pictures that have already emerged online show significant internal damage, as well as to the flight deck and superstructure. It will take the Navy a not-insignificant amount of time to just conduct a full damage assessment.....

ORAC, nice PowerPoint Bullet Points but the ship is f**ked.

I hope there's a damn good inquiry in to how this happned and not just a white wash; "Hot Works means we turn off Fire Supression."
That's just not a good enough excuse anymore.
Contractors - dodgy tools - don't give a monkey's - Notre-Dame...

It would not surprise me.

Article: https://www.defensenews.com/naval/20..._source=clavis

"The amphibious assault ship Bonhomme Richard, which burned through the night while in port in San Diego, was at the tail end of two years of upgrades supporting the integration of the F-35B, according to Navy documents.

That means the Navy will now have fewer options to deploy the next-generation fighter in the Pacific.

The Navy awarded the $219 million modernization contract to General Dynamics, National Steel and Shipbuilding Co. in 2018, which had options for up to $250 million. Bonhomme Richard is one of four large-deck amphibs to have received the upgrades. The Boxer was announced earlier this year as the fifth big-deck to get the upgrades.

Experts said the loss of Bonhomme Richard, whether a total loss or just lost for extensive repairs, deals a significant blow to the Navy’s plans to have F-35Bs continually deployed in the Pacific. And with Monday’s announcement that the United States had formally rejected China’s claims about the South China Sea, any accompanying boost in naval presence could be slowed by the fire.

The Navy’s deployment model is based on having permanent forward presence in vital regions, such as the Indo-Pacific and the Middle East. To accomplish that, the service needs enough ships to support one forward on deployment, one in an elevated status of readiness to surge in an emergency, one in maintenance and one in pre-deployment workups.

In other words, in an ideal world the Navy would have at least four ships to have one of them always on deployment. But with longer overhauls, such as the F-35B upgrades, it might require five ships to make one forward."

----------------------
What chance that after the USMC do their workup training later this year on HMS Queen Elizabeth - or after the CSG 21 deployment - and then start lobbying their corner on future requirements - that the USA gives the UK an offer too good to refuse for HMS Prince of Wales - buy, loan or exchange for a bunch of "free" F-35s !

You could get a few F-22s for the price of the British carriers.

Photo montage of the fire fighting.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...nhomme-richard

Photos: The battle to save the USS Bonhomme Richard


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....47cc7f7cb.jpeg



https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....084c32054.jpeg


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b63e70edc.jpeg

The melting point is not the issue, a serious 1000C fire over 48 hours will have changed the structural properties of the steel. It will start to soften at only 450C and will loose 50% of its strength at 650C, which is usually the temp range that you stress relieve steel at.

The ship is toast.....well done toast at that.

"AFAIKtwo Tararawa Class ships are in reserve Peleliuonly since 2015 so she might be a gap fill option."

Yes Nassau LHA4 has been in reserves since 2011 and Peleliu LHA5 only since 2015 - Peleliu is only a few years older than BHR and could probably be reactivated for a small part of the time & cost of a rebuild .

Even though they weren't a great success as a class she could operate Harriers and fill a gap if they feel they need to.

What chances an unwelcome visitor among the onboard contractors?

Fire starting in an unoccupied storage area with lots of cardboard pallets and other combustibles?

Significant F35 capability downgraded in the Pacific?

Anyone recently left the country?

There are some bigger questions here.

IG

That took me straight back to the sight of those poor crews at Chernobyl back in '86. At least it was "only" noxious fumes in the smoke this time round!

On the issue of "things going wrong" I recall a Fire Exercise at sea once. A smoke canister was put in a small workshop compartment to simulate a fire. I was the first on the scene but I was immediately dragged away by the Damage Control WO - me being an Engineer. What he wanted to see was how the aircrew handled it as the "fire" was right next to their Briefing Room where they were all sat. I'd just finished my morning Engineering Brief to the Crews so was closest the door/"fire" waiting to head off to the Flight Deck once the Brief was over.

Smoke poured out from a vent while the guys (no gals involved on that day) sorted themselves out and started rigging hoses etc, etc, etc. I stood with the DC WO idly watching the fun. I then suddenly noticed the smoke was slowly turning from white to black so I nudged the WO and pointed it out - at which point he had a bit of an "Oh, bother!" moment - next pipe "Fire, Fire, Fire - Fire in 2XYZ, Standing Sea Fire Party close up at 2WXY! This is NOT an exercise!".

Unfortunately the lad setting the smoke canister up for the WO decided to hide the canister in a small store area off the workshop to make it more difficult to find the seat of the "fire". Took a little while to put the real fire out - and I can vouch for it that cans of paint burn with black smoke!!! It made a bit of a mess in 4 adjacent compartments too. Owch!!!! :eek:

To quote Barnes Wallis " it's hard to make things fool-proof as the fools are so damn clever at finding a way round any precautions"

I've seen a worker hitting a stuck valve with a hammer beside an open orifice - had he succeed there was 10,000 psi gas ready to cut him in half - that was an hour after a safety briefing. I've seen someone refuel a small petrol engine which was red hot while it was still running by pouring petrol into the tank on top of the engine without even a funnel, I've seen someone place an open box of detonators on top of a pile of explosives on a small boat right next to the boarding point where people often jumped into the boat.............

I of course have done nothing so stupid...... :rolleyes:

Imagegear, I was thinking of a possibility along those lines but probably just negligence. Not a military story but a paper factory, which was a client of my father's, was burnt to the ground by a blow torch "left" burning on the new roof, there was suspicion it was arson but nothing could be proved.

Anyway, General Ghaani the new head of the IRGC's Quds Force has identified the reponsible party as God.

Ship Fire is Divine Punishiment for Washington's Crimes

GeeRam, as a former metallurgy student that's why I was trying to identify if it was F or C if it wasas ORAC says F the damage will have been less. I would have thought it is a question of determining how much has been damaged and if it is economic to cut out and replace.

I wouldn't be surprised if this increases the chances of PoW being deployed out East for USMC F-35s to operate off in the medium term. Problem is replacing the troop carrying and amphipious landing capabiity - she could carry the equivalent of 2 Commandos+ more than twice the number Ocean could embark. Better not start riding my hobby horse of the RN's need for a real LPH.

The rear ramp shows the amount of list on her quite well.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....994906e141.jpg

Out of interest and I know its a daft suggestion, but given the possible weakening of the structure etc, the QE and P of W were built modular ( as in the picture below ) I realise the ships were fitted out after assembly, but could they not simply construct new sections if needed and then cut and insert those into the ship? that way the sections could be fitted out and built off hull as the hull is being stripped ready to accept them? Barking I know, but stranger things have happened in life.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ad2b0c8033.png

Agree about the metal weakening. However that does not all point to the repairability of the ship. Consider that the fire burns upward in a localized location., only the structural parts directly above it will be seriously damaged. I'm guessing that much of the damage is repairable. Of course that does leave the possibility that some critical parts are damaged to the point where it is too costly to repair. I'm sure the Navy has lots of experience in this over the last 100 years

Is she repairable? One only has to look at the proportionate damage to the USS Cole others plus go back to Forrestal and even Pear Harbor to see what American industry can do. Replacement $4Bn and 5 years or so, repair $1-2bn and 3-4 years is my guess. She is parked next to the GD shipyard who know her well.

More than half way through her service life, probably better to put the money towards another America class ship probably. Sad to see but after that long in a hot oven I’m not sure it will be a viable fix.

Nutty, the previous ship LHD-5 USS Bataan was definitely modular construction, don't know it LHD-6 was constructed the same way.

They're all built that way. Ingalls were pioneers in that technique forty-odd years ago.

Any significant structural replacement would probably go that way in any case. The island (which is ally by the way) would be a new fabrication. The real cost will depend on how much cabling has been damaged / destroyed internally, particularly below the hangar deck where watertight integrity issues significantly affect the ease of replacement.

Personally think she's a CTL, but will depend on operational priorities. Digging any of the old LHA out of reserve would be similarly costly - particularly for F35 mods.

In my youth I studied metallurgy and had the opportunity not only to study grain structure and characteristics of different types of steel. I also spent time on the shop floor working with preheating furnaces and studying austenitic effects at different temperatures. We always worked on an austenitic temperature transition starting around 723 degrees C. The effects on steel at uncontrolled and variable high temperatures is unimaginable. (Think twin towers)

If you feel like swimming among crocodiles, this paper will provide you with sleepless nights: Steel - Austenitic variables.

In my opinion, this vessel is almost totally compromised and should be decontaminated and scuttled. Even if the keel and bottom two decks/tanks, etc could be salvaged, it would not be worth the effort since the scrap value is limited.

IG

I see why the US are wanting the carriers after reading this

https://www.maritime-executive.com/a...aritime-claims

Nothing is fool-proof. The best you can hope for is idiot-resistant.

Same happened to the WRNS Quarters, HMS Daedalus, for exactly the same reason one evening I think in about 1979, tho the building survived due to the Fire Piquet expanding by over 5000% when the Tannoy announced the location of the fire!!! When the civvie Fire Brigade arrived the audience were 6 deep! There were WRNS bailing out everywhere dressed in various forms night of attire - so I'm reliably informed of course. :ok:

Re the ship, it will be like writing off aircraft or even a car after an accident; often there is much additional damage due to the fire fighting efforts in adjacent compartments, particularly if a ship is quite "open" as is often the case with extended refits. Water gets everywhere even when closed up properly as odd seals don't work/get damaged or a fire hose leaks and smoke damage can be widespread - especially if the ventilation is not crash-stopped. Lots of stuff like wiring, for example, will have to go, even if not directly affected by fire, but maybe simply due to the heat of the hot air perhaps venting through several compartments raising the temperatures in them to an unknown level. No obvious signs of damage but still now an "unknown" so will need replacing. With access open for heavy maintenance teams, it's a Damage Control Officer's worst nightmare as the spread of direct and indirect effects is far less restricted - across, up and down!

As I say, my story a few posts above of the Paint Store fire led to quite a bit of damage to adjoining compartments - bearing in mind it was (a) very small, (b) the Damage Control WO was actually stood about 4 m away from it when it started, and, (c) the aircrew had just run out a load of hoses for the "exercise" which were then used by the Ships Standing Sea Fire Party when they arrived so that meant water was on metal quite a bit quicker than expected. I'll leave it to you to decide why he felt it was better to delay the re-entry until the Ships Team had arrived rather than send the aircrew lads in as "Wave 1".....

And my job as allocated to me by the DC WO? "Sir, do me a really big favour ........ just get this lot out of here!" Duty sheep-dog herding aircrew away! :p

I'm sure he didn't believe they were WAFU.:suspect: Far better to let the professionals do it for real.

Looking at the tour clip, I was struck by the large open areas, there seemed to be long runs without a hatchway (and an absence of built in trip hazards) but generally how shiny and uncluttered she was compared to Lusty in her later years.

I can hear my old materials science professor now, talking about that transition ...
That is an uninformed opinion, given that you don't know the extent of the area exposed to those temperatures. They are going to have to do a detailed assessment of what has to be cut away due to material structural degradation (which you rightly mention) versus what remains that isn't so affected. The info that you and I are exposed to is media reports. I'd hold off on suggesting that they turn it into razor blades until NAVSEA send out an engineering team and they do formal investigation and analysis.
(In the end, your guess might be on target)

Been not quite 30 years since I was in San Diego; it is doubly frustrating to me that they had apparently completed most of the mods during the availability period and then the holes in the cheese lined up and the fire started.
Not going to completely bet against one of your earlier posts suggesting sabotage - it's possible, but given how many known risks there are to overhaul and mod work in a shipyard, I'll offer that it is a very low ball bet, if any, on that being the trigger. But that needs to be looked into, IMO.
A couple of my friends served on that ship in the early 00's, sorry to see her suffer this :uhoh:

As you say, a decision will only be made after a qualified engineering team are able to assess the damage. How one can even begin to analyse every potential hotspot for what is effectively internal granular restructuring on a vessel of that size is well below my pay scale.

Sometime after I left her, the Sir Galahad slipped beneath the waves off Stanley and watching the news at the time, it was devastating knowing the conditions under which so many perished. Another, the old Ark Royal eventually went for "razor blades", not so much dying as fading away.

A long time ago for me, but still brings back memories.

IG

The US did some pretty amazing repairs in the aftermath of the Pearl Harbor attack as outlined in this book: "Resurrection: Salvaging the Battle Fleet at Pearl Harbor" (I read it a couple years ago)
In short, most of the ships sunk or badly damaged during the attack were repaired and returned to active duty before the end of the war (the most notable exceptions being the battleships Arizona and Oklahoma). It's hard to imagine the fire damage to theBonhomme Richard is more severe that what happened the West Virginia or Nevada on Dec. 7 1941.
Now, if it is cost (and/or time) effectiveis a completely different question - I'm sure there are some bean counter types already looking at that aspect. But I don't think there is any question it can be repaired and returned to service if so desired.

The famous Tempil chart says no grain growth below about 1300 F. If there was a concern, though, the amount of paint damage would probably be a reasonably reliable guide to the amount of heating. The biggest concern might just be distortion of the structure, both because steel isn't very strong at 1000 degrees F, and because of stresses due to differential heating.

I haven't seen anything yet on what the Navy considers the value of putting a ship back to sea vs scrapping. I believe that some battle damage throughout the years was so bad that cost to repair was greater than the value of the finished product. Going back to WWII, all battleships sunk at Pearl Harbor other than the AZ and OK were put back into service. Was there a morale value in putting ships into action the Japanese had sunk? How about the Cole. Wasn't considerable value placed on putting the ship back into service therefore being able to say they dished out their best but we persevered. Franklin and Bunker Hill come to mind as ships that possibly have been let go saving sailor lives vs being able to say we brought her home. In this case we have an accidental fire while in port, not a ship suffering battle damage. Will this contribute to the decision whether or not to restore a ship that has served 2/3 of its design life? Sailors would hate to lose their ship while they are assigned but when is it time to cut your losses. I assume that only a detailed damage assessment followed by cost to repair estimate will be needed and wondered how maintaining the Navy's image fits in.

Regarding sabotage, I sure hope not and would bet against it, however it wouldn’t be the first time a warship was taken out in peacetime while at the docks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Miami_(SSN-755)

NWA SLF hits the nail. As an outsider, I'd guess that there will be a massive research project over three or four months, that will declare the risks and costs too high. We all understand the military desire to bring back their dead but this one would take so long to investigate and test and repair - no one could be sure that every plate and joint would hold up under maximum stress.

(I now risk a high level of response) The Americans might want more hardware in the Pacific but they cannot win against China. That is, not so much about 'win' a hot war - but the long term battle for 'top dog' status - for that is already lost. It's just that many Americans do not yet realise it.