Originally Posted by keesje (Post 10831275)

What makes it so hard to look at this like a human among humans? Instead of top down, "us against them" "we" won, kind of flagwaving? Is it strong or weak? For what I said, why does it matter if I have a Dutch flag in my profile, or a Turkish, American or Chinese one? I served? My race? My religion? Skin? The size of my house? Shouldn't we look at the message instead of the messenger?

Maybe we and our pre ancestors were programmed that way. We, but "them" even more of course. Keeping moral distance, focussed, blind when required, trained to stand behind superiority walls we didn't erect. Rewarded for getting the job done. Like the millions of executors in the bloody twentieth century.

Hopefully the twentieth century remains the bloodiest one for ever. WW2 being the blackest pages in the book. I have a slight hope communication these days is so quick, widespread, two way, it becomes hard to steer, embed, dismiss, manipulate. Harder to hide because in your face in minutes. Also if it doesn't fit agendas / desired perceptions. However the recent fake-news / manipulation revelations and their effects are worrying..




Thank you for the link, never saw this page. Lot's of observation that surprise me, being raised here. Would it be valuable if all wiki pages on national topics can be written by anybody but nationals? I think probably most history books are written the brits, likely the best one too. But I would avoid reading a book on Brittish recent history, written by a British citizen. Let a skilled writer / team from elsewhere have an objective look..

Originally Posted by keesje (Post 10832061)

Also on necessity of carpet bombing civilian

Originally Posted by Asturias56 (Post 10832125)

This is getting silly - I think kesje is a wind up merchant

Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 10831141)

1. Stalin signed a ten year non aggression pact with Hitler, and participated in the partition of Poland. He had previously purged a good many of his military as being "politicaly unreliable" and made a variety of other cock ups. They made their own bed and you complain that they had to sleep in it. They are "grumpy," and it is someone else's fault, of course. :ugh: You seem to be an easy mark for their rhetoric. you might want to go back and read the red rhetoric of the 1920's and 1930', and the stated goal of tearing down the world order of the time to be replaced with a utopia. Same blinkered ideals as the French revolution, similar flaws in execution ...