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Reports of a CF Snowbird accident in Kamloops
Early yet. Few details except one Tutor has impacted a house in Kamloops
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Canadian Forces Snowbirds CT-114 down in British Columbia
A CT-114 is down in Kamloops, BC; pilot is reported to have ejected
https://cfjctoday.com/2020/05/17/pla...-brocklehurst/ Video: |
This was their planned flight for this morning. They spell takeoff a little differently in this graphic.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....74072758e5.jpg |
A couple of pictures from social media.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....206e119e51.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1761e90555.jpg |
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I'm a level headed person, but this year has chipped away at my sanity. When the tour was announced I prayed to every single deity not to have to read this headline.
Per Ardua Ad Astra. |
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More reports from local social media of a possible female fatality, not confirmed.
It appears that the planned flyover was cancelled for weather and the planes were going to reposition to Comox. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c3bd322bfa.jpg |
Clearly, weather does not appear to be a factor in this tragic crash. A 45-degree angle of bank on departure seems de rigueur for some Snowbird manoeuvres, however control of the bank angle, which includes pitch, appears to have rapidly deteriorated.
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From Kamloops This Week:
Witnesses saw at least one pilot eject before the plane crashed. He landed on the roof of a house on nearby Schreiner Street and was rescued by Kamloops Fire Rescue. A witness told KTW a second person, a female, appeared to have succumbed to her injuries. Dana Hings is a retired nurse from New Westminster who is visiting her daughter in Brock. “We were in the garden and we heard a large crash,” Hings told KTW, noting they heard calls for medical help. Hings and her daughter rushed to the backyard of the home and found a person who appeared to be deceased. “I saw a deceased female with catastrophic injuries,” Hings said. “It looked like she hit a tree. It’s insane. It’s not supposed to happen. This [the Snowbirds tour] is supposed to be a good thing and she died.” The Royal Canadian Air Force released a statement at 12:54 p.m. on Sunday: “The RCAF has been made aware that a Canadian Forces Snowbirds aircraft crashed in the vicinity of Kamloops, B.C. Our priority at this time is determining the status of our personnel and supporting emergency personnel. When appropriate, more information will be made available." Cory Pelton was on Aviation Way, watching the planes, when he saw the crash and drove to the house the plane hit. “You could smell raw fuel everywhere. I ran into the backyard and, just as I jumped over the back fence, I saw the elderly couple coming out. I asked if there was anyone else in there or any pets and they said no, that’s it.” He said the plane hit the attached garage and a little bit of the house. Another witness, a Kamloops man who did not wish to have his name published, said he was at the airport for an hour before the crash to watch the Snowbirds squadron take off as they were to continue their cross-Canada tour by heading to Vancouver lsland. He said two jets took off together and all looked normal as they rose above the airport. “All of a sudden, one of the planes suddenly went up, straight up, quite high, then it started dropping and doing a barrel roll,” he said. “It did a few spirals and I saw the ejector seat pop out. Then I saw a big fireball, an explosion.” He said those watching the planes take off initially did not realize anything was wrong as the one Snowbird began climbing vertically, then descended with barrel rolls.“We thought it was going to do some kind of cool trick,” he said. “It was incredible. I can’t believe I saw it. |
Awfully sad news. My thoughts and prayers to all those involved
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More information and videos here: https://aerobaticteams.net/en/news/i...-Kamloops.html
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Loss of thrust / engine failure. I can not link the video, from a different angle. You can hear the eng pop over the end of the runway.
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"Anomalies" During Ejection in October
Apparently there were issues during the ejection sequence when Capt. Kevin Domon-Grenier ejected from his Tutor last October in Georgia.
From a Dec. 1, 2019 article on Avweb: Domon-Grenier was taken to a hospital as a precaution but released that evening. He reported “anomalies” with the ejection but the RCAF did not elaborate on what went wrong. |
Cell-phone videos of the take-off, immediate pitchup and roll, and crash, here: https://aerobaticteams.net/en/news/i...-Kamloops.html
I don't hear a "pop" until the impact (or maybe the ejection) - but maybe it's lost in the audio. |
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full
(Post 10785411)
Cell-phone videos of the take-off, immediate pitchup and roll, and crash, here: https://aerobaticteams.net/en/news/i...-Kamloops.html
I don't hear a "pop" until the impact (or maybe the ejection) - but maybe it's lost in the audio. |
Oufff. That wasn’t pretty. :(
Both seats are evident departing the jet. Only one parachute is visible just before entering the tree line. A number of the Squadrons support staff are female. Condolences to the team and families. |
Originally Posted by metro301
(Post 10785416)
At 10 seconds on the second linked video. Double pop later for both ejection seats. I had ear buds in when I heard it.
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Originally Posted by dave.rooney
(Post 10785408)
Apparently there were issues during the ejection sequence when Capt. Kevin Domon-Grenier ejected from his Tutor last October in Georgia.
From a Dec. 1, 2019 article on Avweb: The ejections in this case looked as if the seats left the aircraft OK, but didn't counteract the descent at all. Do the Snowbirds' Tutor's still use the old Weber seats? Is it possible something went very wrong early and the pilot was trying to get altitude to safely eject but was not able to? Will obviously have to wait for the investigation, unsure if it is CTSB that investigate military incidents. |
Is it normal to see trails of brown/black smoke from an ejection seat?
Possibly given age of jets and not zero zero seats. Haven't seen that before... |
Another couple of photos of the rescue of one of the ejectees from the roof of a house - click on them to enlarge
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Strange looking ejection. Outside seat envelope with rate of descent? Seats both seemed to have a downward trajectory.
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tartare "...smoke on ejection.." It is usual. Ejection seats are propelled by small rockets.
LKF. Aircraft ejections usually result in injury to the ejectee. Lately, the odds of getting injured upon ejection is kinda 50/50. An improvement since I last checked. Seats and training are getting better, apparently. |
Originally Posted by evansb
(Post 10785468)
Ejection seats are propelled by small rockets. What did you think? Rubber bands?
Have a look at multiple ejection videos on the web. Flames, yes. A bit of white smoke, occasionally. First time I've seen that degree of brown/black smoke. And there's more from one seat than the other. The Tutor is a 1960s era aircraft - does it still use the Weber seats? Perhaps just a different type of propellant... |
City will hold press conference at 16:45 local. Impact was on the north shore of the Thompson River in Brocklehurst area (Tranquille/Crestline/Glenview/Schreiner Streets). One female confirmed dead of catastrophic injuries - "It looks like she hit a tree."
https://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/new...use-1.24136744 |
Anyone know if the Tutor has command ejection?
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Originally Posted by tartare
(Post 10785470)
The Tutor is a 1960s era aircraft - does it still use the Weber seats?
Perhaps just a different type of propellant... IMO, it's past time to ditch the Tutors and maybe spend the money on some BAE Hawks like those used at NFTC in Moose Jaw. |
Speaking as a former QFI.
Looks initially like an engine failure after T/O, followed by an attempt to trade energy for altitude and then a turn back leading to a loss of control and ejection. basing my judgement entirely on the video and audio recordings. |
Capt. Casey joined the Snowbirds in 2018 and served as a spokesperson. Prior to that, she was a reporter, anchor and producer with NEWS 95.7 in Halifax. RIP
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Snowbirds crash victim was Haligonian, former journalistOfficial sources have confirmed that one person has died in a tragic accident that occurred in Kamloops, earlier todayabout an hour ago By: HalifaxToday Staff https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....4d69e8855e.png Official sources have confirmed that one person has died in a tragic accident that occurred in Kamloops, B.C. earlier today. "It is with heavy hearts that we announce that one member of the CF Snowbirds team has died and one has sustained serious injuries," says a Tweet from the Snowbirds. HalifaxToday has confirmed that Captain Jenn Casey, who served as a spokesperson for the Snowbirds, was on the plane when it crashed. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ad266e256c.jpg Casey grew up in Halifax, getting a Bachelor of Arts at Dalhousie University and attending journalism school at the University of King's College. Prior to joining the Canadian Armed Forces, Jenn was an employee of NEWS 95.7 working as a reporter, an anchor and as a producer for The Rick Howe Show. According to her online profile with the Air Force, Casey has been with the Snowbirds since November 2018. The RCAF confirmed in a Tweet that Casey's family has been notified. |
Originally Posted by tartare
(Post 10785470)
Yes - I do know that :rolleyes:
Have a look at multiple ejection videos on the web. Flames, yes. A bit of white smoke, occasionally. First time I've seen that degree of brown/black smoke. And there's more from one seat than the other. The Tutor is a 1960s era aircraft - does it still use the Weber seats? Perhaps just a different type of propellant... |
Originally Posted by dave.rooney
(Post 10785489)
I asked the same question... I can't find anything saying otherwise. Also, when Capt. Kevin Domon-Grenier had to eject last October, he reported "anomalies" during the ejection sequence. Again, I couldn't find any specifics on that.
IMO, it's past time to ditch the Tutors and maybe spend the money on some BAE Hawks like those used at NFTC in Moose Jaw. Yep, wondered if it was a stall on attempted turn back when watching the video. Questions around smoke and propellants - I was thinking about the age of the seats - and if the `chute deployed on Captain Casey's... |
Originally Posted by Monarch Man
(Post 10785495)
Speaking as a former QFI.
Looks initially like an engine failure after T/O, followed by an attempt to trade energy for altitude and then a turn back leading to a loss of control and ejection. basing my judgement entirely on the video and audio recordings. The description of the retired nurse at the scene wasn’t an easy read. |
Originally Posted by dave.rooney
(Post 10785489)
IMO, it's past time to ditch the Tutors and maybe spend the money on some BAE Hawks like those used at NFTC in Moose Jaw.
sarcasm off :suspect: |
Any amount of negative vertical speed can overcome even the newest 0/0 seats. A certain envelope must be fulfilled in order for the seats to have a chance of working successfully. It seems control was lost prior to ejection, which was done at an undesirable energy state. Any idea on the glide performance of the Tutor, plenty of empty land around the airport...
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"...negative vertical speed.." is a term known to less than 0.01 per cent of the world's populace. I understand you none the less.
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Any idea on the glide performance of the Tutor, plenty of empty land around the airport... https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ka...4d-120.4417902 But there is the Thompson River directly on runway heading (either runway, it bends around the airport). However, I have no clue how well a Tutor would handle a ditching, nor whether a visiting crew would recognize that option unless they'd had a special briefing. |
JPJP
It is not unusual for the majority of the Snowbirds team to be from non-FJ backgrounds. The RCAF is also very short on FJ pilots as it is.
As nice an idea as an RCAF team flying Hornets sounds I think they would really struggle to man it. Especially as a 9-ship. BV |
Engine failure on takeoff, every pilot’s nightmare. I hope he gets plenty of support - the death of his colleague is going to be hard on him.
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