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PBN approved RAF aircraft types
Does anyone know which RAF types are currently PBN-approved? As I understand it, C17s, A400s and A330s are, but the C130Js aren't. What about other types? Given the declining number of military bases and the ICAO requirement for all civil procedures to be PBN by 2024, I presume there's a plan in place for any military aircraft that might need to access a civil airfield IFR?
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Juno and Jupiter are PBN approved. |
Cant you see the pattern there? "C17s, A400s and A330s are, but the C130Js aren't" The first three are civil aircraft types (as are the 'Juno and Jupiter") - the C130's civil equivalent is the L100. Nobody sees the need or want to pay money to update old military aircraft.
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Originally Posted by Rigga
(Post 10650612)
Cant you see the pattern there? "C17s, A400s and A330s are, but the C130Js aren't" The first three are civil aircraft types (as are the 'Juno and Jupiter") - the C130's civil equivalent is the L100. Nobody sees the need or want to pay money to update old military aircraft.
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Originally Posted by Easy Street
(Post 10650631)
OK, it’s late, but on what planet are C17 and A400M civil types?? "MD-17: Proposed variant for civilian operators, later redesignated as BC-17 after 1997 (Boeing) merger." "MD-17 received FAA Certification 9 June 2007." According to Flight Global 14 March 2013, The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) has approved full civil certification for the Airbus Military A400M tactical transport, edging the type closer to its entry into service in mid-2013. So, when any of the Military versions are retired, civil tankers and transports might easily pop-up with civil registration. |
Equally there is a civil version of the C-130J, the LM-100J.....
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us...s/lm-100j.html https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-assembly-line https://c130mro.com/2018/07/09/will-...certification/ |
The C130J was B-RNAV certified but only if the mil-standard GPS was removed from the solution and the ac was in range of land-based navaids to update the INSs. It wasn’t going to be fully PBN until fitted with civil certified GPS, I forget which block upgrade that was intended to be on. Only a fool would actually have deselected the GPSs though. The database in the CNI-MU (FMS) didn’t support RNP approaches & departures anyway. |
Originally Posted by Ken Scott
(Post 10651094)
The C130J was B-RNAV certified but only if the mil-standard GPS was removed from the solution |
Originally Posted by Not Long Here
(Post 10651133)
It has always struck me as quite strange that mil-standard GPS isn't acceptable for civil PBN certification. I know that they don't normally come with TSO 145/146 but when you actually delve into performance/FDE etc the Mil GPS installed in most military aircraft easily meet the requirements. Certification through equivalence?
Lack of RAIM prediction and electing, or SBAS (which omits the RAIM prediction requirement) as part of the MGPS milspec is an issue. |
Especially as GPS is a military satellite system & with the P code switched back on civ GPS would be hopelessly inaccurate for aviation purposes. |
Originally Posted by Ken Scott
(Post 10651189)
with the P code switched back on civ GPS would be hopelessly inaccurate for aviation purposes. |
Originally Posted by Easy Street
(Post 10650631)
OK, it’s late, but on what planet are C17 and A400M civil types?? |
Originally Posted by Ken Scott
(Post 10651189)
Especially as GPS is a military satellite system & with the P code switched back on civ GPS would be hopelessly inaccurate for aviation purposes. |
Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 10655943)
Asteroid and Hemorrhoid?
https://www.easa.europa.eu/documents...s-lsa/easaa169 C17 due to its design and field performance compromises (particularly 4 engine baukled approach) will never meet Perf A requirements. |
Originally Posted by beardy
(Post 10655971)
Are you confusing GPS navigation with RNAV?
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Yes, whilst RNAV does not have to involve GPS, indeed the first RNAV routes were in the early 70s before any GPS satellites were launched, it only really worked once the system was available. Switching off the P code was Clinton’s gift to the world & allowed civ GPS to be accurate enough for precise navigation. The GA world in particular would be screwed by the P code being switched back on although I believe that more recent GPS satellites aren’t enabled with it.
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Clinton did not 'switch off the P-code'! He directed that Selective Availability, the feature which reduced the accuracy of C/A-code receivers, would no longer be used. Which has nothing whatsoever to do with P code!
More recent GPS satellites no longer even have the capability of using SA. The P (Precise) code signals have never been available to non-military users. |
Oh Beagle, you are such a pedant!
Clinton directed that what makes GPS accurate for the military should be turned off so that it’s accurate for civvies too... I might not have the terms strictly accurate but the sense was correct. As I said, the recent satellites no longer have the capability anyway. Happy now?! |
No - you're still writing total bolleaux!
Clinton directed that the feature which could, when enabled, render civil users' GPS inaccurate would be discontinued. It had nothing whatsoever to do with military GPS functionality, then or now. |
BEagle isn't being pedantic, he is just being correct.
The AAC Gazelles are PBN equipped and capable. |
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