207 Squadron
 

RAF News shows the second F35 Sqn to be : 207, a unit disbanded in circa 1984.

Given the RAF's 'low number' policy (except 617) for squadrons and the plethora of other 'claims' which must be out there, does anybody know the reason for the 207 nameplate to be reactivated?

Old Duffer

Because 201 through to 208 were ex RNAS units renumbered when the RAF formed.

Its probably explained somewhere deep within the F-35 threads but I ain't looking

I'm sure someone else will confirm

Maybe to try and fool the general public into thinking there are 206 other squadrons out there somewhere?

Generally, I'd surmise they picked an early 200 series number because of the RNAS/RAF (Joint) connection.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-...on-become-ocu/

Specifically why 207, maybe as it was a bomber (strike) sqn as opposed to an army co-op/fighter recce (fighter) sqn like 208? All the others being Coastal Command up to 211?

Not to mention the connection between 207 Sqn and Marham when it was based with Valiants..

Thank you for the above ideas/views, however this throws up a separate question as to whether there are to be any 800 series squadrons operating the type and possibly 700 series units to train the RN component of the force.

Were I a cynic (perish the thought) I might say that when the RAF went to look for the squadron silver etc in the store, they found that 207s was the only lot that hadn't been looted due to lax management and hence could be recovered without too much dirty washing being exposed.

O-D

Think 809 is being resurrected by the RN.

The last boss of 207 sometimes posts here - friendly pelican 2 - ( last seen a year ago here ). I wonder if he is in the know?

Editing - I'd forgotten the number was allocated to an FTS, I was referring to the last OC when it was a 'proper' squadron and not a reserve sqn'.

As explained by ACM Hiller HERE

Easy Street,

Do please enlighten me as to why I have offended you so!

Whilst my post was meant as a jocular comment as to why 207 was chosen, the saga about the squadron/unit silver, which used to be held in the 'Central repository' at 7 MU south of Gloucester and subsequently moved around with what has politely been described as 'lack of attention to the finer points of the security of valuable non-public property' is something which might be worthy of a fairly deep investigation. Should you have been a member of - say - a disbanded unit and if you can say that you are satisfied that the valuable non-public property, which had not been correctly sold or returned to the person/family which gifted it, is safe and well looked after and still matches the entries in the Property Book, then I shall permit you to brand me as the output of a male bovine's rear end.

I invite your response.

O-D

Using a public forum to pronounce with an air of authority on squadron numbering policy (incorrectly) and then casting aspersions on contemporary standards of probity as a way of reconciling your lack of understanding with the observed facts? Something that happened at a unit which closed a quarter of a century ago is hardly likely to be relevant given the number of candidate squadrons whose silver went into storage thereafter.

Easy Street,

I hope others reading this Thread will forgive me for ‘drifting’ the Thread to respond to the points you make against me.

First, low squadron numbering is a policy and it has been so in the RAF for many years, although I am not privy to the AFB Standing Committee minutes which formulated it. However, it was for this policy, that I wrote to Air Clues to suggest that OCUs should be renumbered with numbers of sqns which might never be resurrected. Although ridiculed by some, I gained the support of Air Marshal Sir John Curtiss and it happened, with the sqns being give an “R” suffix. I now know that 207 Sqn (without the “R”) is to be the F35 training squadron, rather than being numbered (although possibly still called) an OCU.

Turning to squadron silver and other memorabilia: there was a laid down process for sending to the repository, the remaining silver etc and the associated and audited property book (standards not included). When Quedgely (No: 7 MU) closed the repository moved to Stafford and later to a defence facility at Donnington near Telford. At 7 MU there were rigorous arrangements, similar to the methods of managing Valuable & Attractive (V&A) items. As time passed and deeper and deeper cuts were made, so the care of ‘non public’ items became more and more lax and the audit of what was there and who was responsible became less clear. Against this perceived inadequacy a number of fairly senior people became concerned at the opportunity for misappropriation and have raised these concerns but apparently to no avail.

Before you disparage my point, I invite you to submit an FOI question. I suggest you ask what the current arrangements are for the safeguarding of valuable non-public property held at Donnington, when was an audit last conducted formally and what level of error/loss was identified against the appropriate property books. Should the answer you receive (and posted here of course) reveal that I am the bulls&*^^er you suppose, I shall buy you (and a guest) a slap up dinner at the RAF Club.

I am sure ppruners will be only too pleased to hold my feet to the fire should I attempt to renege.

O-D

The Central Depository' was RAF Mildenhall in the late 1940's. That was where the silver for all the squadrons that had been disbanded after the II World War had been deposited.

One day a clutch of 3 tonners arrived with RAF markings. The drivers had a wad of paperwork authorising them to remove a large quantity of silverware. This was done and a few days later some ex war surplus sale 3 tonners were found abandoned in the countryside,---minus the silverware.

I had heard (general gossip) that some old squadron/station silver that was not of historical significance and unlikely to see the light of day again had been melted down for use in making "newer" silver items for decorative use by the RAF.

Old-Duffer,

If low squadron numbering is indeed a policy, as you claim, how do you explain the existence of 617, 230, 207, 206, 201, 115, 101 and 99 Squadrons, when lower number plates such as 15, 20, 21, 22, 26, 30 and 42 are all long gone, not to mention more famous lower numbers such as 43, 56, 74 etc who appear to have gone for ever?

The policy is supposed to be resurrection based upon seniority - however, there are always inputs by very senior officers and retired lobbyists who put the case for higher numbered squadrons. No 56(R) Sqn is still in existence by the way as the number plate for the ISTAR Tactics and Trials Squadron in the Air Warfare Centre at Waddington.

Does it all matter? (well the numbering - obviously running off withe silver is another issue)

I doubt that it's a critical item for the guys & girls actually flying in those squadrons............ the people who get excited are people who served years ago it seems to me

It was announced at the Fairford International 'ho down' that 207 was to become the F-35 OCU, because their's was the only Mess Silver which could be recovered etc etc..... No seriously, it is due to the Squadron's Naval origins and the intention of course that the F-35 will be operated in close cooperation between the FAA and the RAF. Except for the ones we purchase as 'A's that is! How likely is that looking at present? I wonder?

FB

If President Trump would like the UK to order more F-35's I think right now there'll be an order already on it's way.....................