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-   -   Witness at Navy Seal war crimes trial admits he did it. (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/622746-witness-navy-seal-war-crimes-trial-admits-he-did.html)

NutLoose 21st Jun 2019 11:52

Witness at Navy Seal war crimes trial admits he did it.
 
He was the Medic too, though only after being granted immunity for testifying.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...ler/ar-AADcNgl

Just This Once... 21st Jun 2019 12:33


SASless 21st Jun 2019 12:43

The Corpsman, Corpse Man as Obama would say, just provided the Defendant a very nice gift.

In this Court Martial it will take five of the seven Members of the Jury to vote to convict....if three decide there is Reasonable Doubt as to which Man actually killed the ISIS Fighter the Murder Charge will be a Not Guilty vote.

No doubt a lesser charge could be confirmed if the Prosecutor included those in the Article 32 Proceeding and later the Court Martial Charges and Specifications.


Tashengurt 21st Jun 2019 14:31

Seems to me this whole sorry episode stinks.
SEAL operatives seem to like to be portrayed as men of honour with unquestionable loyalty and devotion to duty, thumping their tridents onto fallen colleagues caskets etc.
This case, whichever way you look at it appears to lift the lid on some very dishonourable actions.

SASless 21st Jun 2019 14:55

The Teams like other SpecOps units have been used and abused due to the Operational Tempo for far too long.

That has created some serious wear and tear on the people as well as equipment,, training, and standards.

Lots of good brave folks who are now going to be painted with a very ugly stain because of the actions of a very few.

For sure....this is a very black eye for the SEAL Community and should engender some very hard reviews of the overall situation in all of SpecOps.


racedo 21st Jun 2019 15:46


Originally Posted by SASless (Post 10499613)
The Teams like other SpecOps units have been used and abused due to the Operational Tempo for far too long.
.

True

Lack of proper oversight and glorification sends the wrong message. You want them to do their job and then STFU. Their existence shouldn't even be discussed.

SASless 21st Jun 2019 16:28

The US Army Delta Force are the quiet professionals.....started by an Officer who trained and served with the SAS on an exchange.

They use the same selection techniques as do the SAS.





Pontius Navigator 21st Jun 2019 17:58


Originally Posted by SASless (Post 10499742)
The US Army Delta Force are the quiet professionals.....started by an Officer who trained and served with the SAS on an exchange.

They use the same selection techniques as do the SAS.

Friend of mine related how he was on an initial selection team for Delta, they had 5,000 to get through. I will PM a separate story.

SASless 22nd Jun 2019 13:51

Let's not overlook the good guys while all this is going on.

The Teams are filled with honest serving...brave....honorable Warriors as are other SpecOps Units.

We lost some very good folks when a Chinook carrying a QRT was shot down in Afghanistan.

"Bobby" was one of them.....he is just one example of the fine young men that take the fight to the enemy for the rest of us.

US and UK forces can be...and should be proud of how they serve and we all should acknowledge that service.



NutLoose 1st Jul 2019 10:49

Latest news and none of it comes across as good

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/court...rce/ar-AADEy21

SASless 1st Jul 2019 13:39

As more testimony is being released to the Public....the Navy's prosecution is beginning to flounder like a rotten hulled ship hard up on the rocks.

The Chief shall be convicted of Bad Order and Discipline for posing for photos with the body of the ISIS Fighter....that is a given.

The Murder Charge is the one that has been undone by the various witnesses.

The shooting at innocent civilians has been undone by the Star witness who admitted he had not actually seen the shootings.

The Medic said he killed the ISIS Fighter by cutting off his air supply.

Two General Officers testified there were no Stab Wounds on the Victim.

There was no blood found on the alleged murder weapon or in the sheath.

The NCIS Investigator has admitted to serious mistakes in the Investigation.

NONE of this is good for the Chief, his Team Mates, the SEAL's, the US Navy, the US Marine Corps, and the American Military in general.

I can turn a some what blind eye to the photo taking....these are rough Men doing a very dirty job....and they will sometimes make errors in judgement.

That does not mean I endorse or condone what they did in that regard....but I can understand it.

I have seen it done first hand in another War....it happens in every War I am thinking.

In our system of justice....harsh as the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) can be....certain protections are in place that should, if properly considered in this case, will and should prevent the Murder Conviction.

It appears there was no autopsy (I have seen no mention of a Forensic Pathology Report in any news reporting), the was no definitive cause of death presented, and there are many witnesses who challenge the veracity or reliability of the accusing witnesses.

As a former NCIS Investigator with experience in Death Cases....with absolute certainty I can say there should have been an autopsy and detailed photographic confirmation of the condition of the body. That might not have been possible in this case due to exigent circumstances and that moves to this case to one of mere circumstantial evidence....the weakest evidence in any prosecution.

The Chief is done in the Navy....he will be discharged probably with a Bad Conduct Discharge (known by the Troops as a "Big Chicken Dinner") which will be something that will stick to him the rest of his Life.

I have no problem with that.....as he and his Team Mates all knew that the photo taking was not to be done as there were some Marine Snipers that got punished severely for that very same thing not so long ago.

Boxers have to stay inside the Ropes when they fight....so do our Military Personnel.


Just This Once... 1st Jul 2019 16:09

A messy case with rather suspect circumstantial evidence. Fortunately there were some independent witnesses outside of the team, including a US Marine, a number of Iraqi troops including a general. All those without any particular axe to grind have testified or provided witness statements that the alleged stabbing never happened.

I make no judgement on those who make personal errors during a dirty conflict. Somehow the USN has given immunity to a brace of accusers who have let their own standards decay well-below acceptable levels and may even have given false testimony. SAS's assessment above, born of experience, is probably on the money - one guy, falsely accused of murder, will be acquitted of the main charges and dismissed for doing exactly the same as those given immunity.

I would be surprised if we see any perjury charges down the line; the USN will just want this to all go away. Meanwhile, sending warfighters away to kill stateless, ruthless, irregular civilian combatants has become even more legally complicated, again.

SASless 2nd Jul 2019 23:35

As I predicted.....sentencing to be determined on the one guilty verdict re posing with the photograph.

The Charge carries a four month prison sentence but Gallagher served nine months in pre-trial confinement.

The single conviction is subject to Appeal and Review by higher authority.

A Presidential Commutation of Sentence or even a Pardon is possible as well.

Probably the Chief will be given credit for time served, a reduction in rank, and forfeiture of pay and allowances and allowed to remain in the Navy..... but that might be a stretch but possible considering the very black eye the Navy Prosecutors got over how poorly this case was handled from the start.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...TY-murder.html

West Coast 3rd Jul 2019 03:43

I don’t think the Navy wants more coverage, they want this to go away. Then again, the navy has spent a lot of time walking on their longfeller in the past couple of years. I heard it best described as a modern day fragging. Chief aggressively pursued the enemy, junior SEALS feared the tempo and exposure. Instead of using a grenade, the junior Sailors used the legal system to take the Chief out.

gijoe 3rd Jul 2019 06:38

...alternatively he might be found not guilty.

RAFEngO74to09 3rd Jul 2019 19:51

On the single guilty charge of posing with the photo: maximum sentence awarded - 4 months confinement (already served) + reduced in rank from E-7 to E-6 with consequent pay and pension loss.

orca 3rd Jul 2019 20:46

Is posing with an enemy corpse a crime in the U.K.? If so, there was a Pprune thread (wasn’t there??) on the subject of a RAF gunner posing by one of the bodies post the Bastion incursion. Did any charges come of that?

SASless 4th Jul 2019 14:16

Saw some Navy Times reporting on this case this morning....for those who are interested in some details about the issues of Prosecutorial Misconduct and quality of investigation done by NCIS....do a bit of googling for "Navy Times" and "Gallagher Case" or "Gallagher Trial".

It makes for some interesting reading and does not portray a very image re the administration of justice by the US Navy Jag Corps or the impartiality of the NCIS Investigator in charge of that effort.

In my days....lighting and the wrath of God would descend from the heavens if you were seen to be taking a position on the. matter(s) under investigation......that prerogative was reserved for Headquarters.

Even then....when that happened it was very bad Karma as it warped the system and caused very bad outcomes.

I look back to the USS Iowa Turret Explosion case, the SEAL Team 6 Fraud Investigation, and the US Marine Corps Russia Embassy Security Guard investigations as examples of why Investigators must remain impartial and be reporters of facts and the truth relating to an event, occurrence, or situation.

The facts and evidence should drive the "theory" and not the other way around

One example....we were tasked to confirm an Alibi just as much as we were too dis-prove it and duly report the results of our efforts in either effort.

We turned our Report of Investigation (ROI) over to the Commander responsible for the individuals or situation....leavig them to decide what to do with the information provided.

I see a lot of problems with the way the Gallagher Case was investigated and prosecuted.

NutLoose 27th Jul 2019 15:22

Sigh............... more rotten apples in the barrel


The Navy reportedly booted SEAL Team 7 out of Iraq after a senior enlisted platoon member allegedly raped a female service member


SEAL Team 6 member charged with impersonating someone to get nude photos


https://taskandpurpose.com/the-navy-...4-YWnkOEK3E2qM

https://www.businessinsider.com/seal...19-7?r=US&IR=T

Eclan 29th Jul 2019 14:17

Is there some aviation content here? (other then the 'a' in seal)


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