Originally Posted by Fareastdriver
(Post 10496789)
When I went through Flying Training if one came over the hedge with less than 30 degrees of bank on you were chopped.
Do you mean they made a trainee landing ? More seriously, as someone already stated, it looks like a last minute change of runway (21 instead of 25), with a little bit of a hurry. |
From the linked article:
"A discussion is currently going on on social media between professional airline pilots whether or not the aircraft should have aborted its landing instead of continuing the unstable approach and landing halfway down the runway." Or maybe military aircraft and aircrew have different requirements and therefore operate in a different way then what professional airline pilots are accustomed to. Looks fairly normal and uneventful to me. Seen all sorts of (X)C-135's, KC-10's, C-17's and other military type heavies do those type of landings from a visual downwind. Do it the civi way at a fighter base, and you will be accused of flying the dreaded bomber pattern and ruining ATC's flow. |
Originally Posted by F-16GUY
(Post 10496855)
Or maybe military aircraft and aircrew have different requirements and therefore operate in a different way then what professional airline pilots are accustomed to.
Looks fairly normal and uneventful to me. Seen all sorts of (X)C-135's, KC-10's, C-17's and other military type heavies do those type of landings from a visual downwind. Do it the civi way at a fighter base, and you will be accused of flying the dreaded bomber pattern and ruining ATC's flow. |
Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt
(Post 10496885)
Not sure missing the touch down point by half a mile is really up to military requirements...
-Go around -Landing and then landing abort due to long landing and not enough stopping distance -Landing long and ending up as a burning wreck somewhere past the overrun -Landing hard on the nose wheel in an attempt to force it down in the touchdown zone -Landing on the grass or as in this case: -landing long, and stopping without reversers and without any drama on the remaining runway. Sorry, I don't see the issue here? Just because its not done this way in the civilian world does not make it unsafe. |
Nothing like as bad as the An22 at Farnborough all those years ago
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E cat, Hoskins!!
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Thanks for that an22 video! Obviously there is finesse involved in manoeuvring a large aircraft like those in both of the shots, personally, the Ruskies handle with more style to it, the touchdown itself included.
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Originally Posted by F-16GUY
(Post 10496900)
or as in this case:
-landing long, and stopping without reversers and without any drama on the remaining runway. |
Originally Posted by FlightDetent
(Post 10496917)
Thanks for that an22 video! Obviously there is finesse involved in manoeuvring a large aircraft like those in both of the shots, personally, the Ruskies handle with more style to it, the touchdown itself included.
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Originally Posted by ExAscoteer
(Post 10496943)
More by luck than any reasoned judgement.
ExAscoteer, do you have any military aviation background in transports or tankers that makes you an expert? |
Application of Stable Approach Criteria is equally important whether the context is military or commercial. The purpose is to create barriers to runway excursion with associated aircraft damage, hull loss, injury or fatalities. All of which represent a significant loss of military capability. In the approach and landing phases, there is absolutely no requirement for this type of aircraft to be operated differently than the airliner equivalent. On this occasion, the crew got away with it; on another day they won’t. The proper outcome was a go-around. I can only imagine that those who think otherwise have not operated similar types of aircraft, either in the military or in an airline. |
Originally Posted by F-16GUY
(Post 10496964)
ExAscoteer, do you have any military aviation background in transports or tankers that makes you an expert?
1000 hrs Nimrod I also have 1000 hrs Dominie (HS-125) teaching Fast Jet Navs and Airmen Aircrew at (primarily) Low Level. Oh, and 2000 hrs as a Multi-Engined Qualified Flying Instructor. So I would suggest I know quite a lot about manoeuvring large aircraft close to the surface, whether land or sea). If you would take luck over skill, you are the last person I would want to fly with, that's an accident waiting to happen. |
Originally Posted by F-16GUY
(Post 10496964)
I will take luck over skill any day....
ExAscoteer, do you have any military aviation background in transports or tankers that makes you an expert? |
Originally Posted by Davef68
(Post 10496901)
Nothing like as bad as the An22 at Farnborough all those years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiheoXf-IEs |
Originally Posted by ExAscoteer
(Post 10496972)
2000 hrs C-130.
1000 hrs Nimrod I also have 1000 hrs Dominie (HS-125) teaching Fast Jet Navs and Airmen Aircrew at (primarily) Low Level. Oh, and 2000 hrs as a Multi-Engined Qualified Flying Instructor. So I would suggest I know quite a lot about manoeuvring large aircraft close to the surface, whether land or sea). If you would take luck over skill, you are the last person I would want to fly with, that's an accident waiting to happen. Thanks, I asked because it seems most of the guys commenting this landing don't have any military background. I could not see from your public profile whether you only "talked the talk" or also "walked the walk". I admit that I don't have any heavy experience, but have witnessed landings like that many times in exercises and operations down range. The guys doing those landings did them for a reason! Genuine question: why do you think its more luck than reasoned judgement? The luck over skill comment was me being sarcastic. Ewan, Do you have any contribution to this discussion? |
I’m with F-16GUY on this. Was hoping for something exciting and the video is only interesting at best. (As titled!). The angle of Bank is tame and constant, he/she rolls wings level when the port wingtip is about “gear to top of fin/ vertical stabiliser” off the ground, speed is under control within a 1000ft of roll or so... |
Americans are much more familiar with side-step procedures than we British and a military flight positioning from Germany could well have incorporated a training element, so it is anybody's guess what their plan was. All looked pretty smooth and controlled to me. No drama.
BEagle - you really must tell us all soon about your employment with Airbus, trying to flog the A330 Tanker around the world to anyone daft enough to buy it! :) :ok: |
Originally Posted by orca
(Post 10497342)
I’m with F-16GUY on this. Was hoping for something exciting and the video is only interesting at best. (As titled!). The angle of Bank is tame and constant, he/she rolls wings level when the port wingtip is about “gear to top of fin/ vertical stabiliser” off the ground, speed is under control within a 1000ft of roll or so... It's just the runway that missed the airplane by half a mile :-) |
Half the posters here would have a heart attack of they had to fly into the old Kai Tak airport.
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He should have done a go around then checked the runway was indeed clear, just like this ;)
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