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Originally Posted by F-16GUY
(Post 10383215)
quantify,
The following link is to a thesis by norwegian testpilot "Timber" He was the first norwegian F-35 pilot and F-35 squadron commander. He made a thesis about the shift of skills required in the F-35 cockpit compared to 4th generation jets. Unfortunately most of the text is in norwegian, but the summery is in english. Maybe you can translate the text with google. To sum it up, future F-35 pilots will need better skills in areas like processing wast amount of information and skills like psychomotoric will not be as important as in existing platforms, as the plane is much easier to fly then earlier generations. https://brage.bibsys.no/xmlui/bitstr...=5&isAllowed=y Even though it is in norwegian, you might be able to get some useful information by looking at his bibliography. I hope it points you in the right direction. I hope it will answer some of your questions. Last but not least, and will all the replies you have got until now from people who didn't tell you they are fighterpilots, this joke comes to mind: Never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him..... |
If Fighter Pilots really are that good, then they would have been streamed rotary wing in the first place...... |
Originally Posted by quantify
(Post 10383747)
Thanks very much, this is quite interesting, how can one practice the skill of processing vasts amounts of information at once? Does that come to your ability to multi task and maintain elite cognitive control where you are able to allow useful information and ignore useless information on a dime?
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Originally Posted by MAD Boom
(Post 10383828)
If Fighter Pilots really are that good, then they would have been streamed rotary wing in the first place...... |
Being a helicopter pilot is clearly genetic - just ask the Windsors.
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Originally Posted by melmothtw
(Post 10384201)
Being a helicopter pilot is clearly genetic - just ask the Windsors.
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Originally Posted by Brian 48nav
(Post 10383180)
My ex-fighter pilot son is first born, 6'4" and reckoned he was the 'G King' when he was on Jaguars ( 1990-99 ) - big ego and I believe well-hung - I stopped checking when he overtook me at about 12 months old!
Don't know about genetics - when I had a go at a PPL just before taking my 8yr option I was absolutely useless. Perhaps my dearly beloved passed on the FP genes? He's certainly " God's gift to women " - or so he keeps telling us! The Jaguar is a fighter? I thought the only air combat the Jaguar has seen was when one was shot down by a Phantom! ;) |
Originally Posted by BVRAAM
(Post 10384402)
The Jaguar is a fighter?
I thought the only air combat the Jaguar has seen was when one was shot down by a Phantom! ;) CG |
Damn ... the shops are shut and I'm right out of popcorn. :)
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I’m pretty sure that a Jaguar hoofed off an AIM-9 at a surface target in GW1...not that this should be taken as a demonstration that the frustrated mud driver wanted to be a fighter pilot. |
typo
Originally Posted by langleybaston
(Post 10383604)
You really don't mean anthropomorphic do you?
Originally Posted by quantify
(Post 10383744)
Isn't being able to learn quickly an innate skill as well?
And sometimes, one discovers mid to late in training that they've hit the ceiling, or have hit a plateau. If the Air Forces and Navies of the world had a better way to drop in the old dip stick and figure out whose aptitude matched the needed traits best, they'd be using it. There is a lot of screening that goes on, but the final test is on task as the demands increase. |
I was!!!!!! Philip couldn't fly a helicopter even if it had training wheels! |
Originally Posted by reader8
(Post 10384694)
Is anybody aware of any good research on correlation factors that may affect early aptitude assessment?
Further research by the University of Stockholm in 2002 reported that "...rather than capturing psychodynamic defence mechanisms, our results suggest that the DMT taps perceptual or information-processing difficulties in correct identification of brief stimulus exposures regardless of their emotional contents". I don't know whether any subsequent work along these lines has been done. From a Jungian perspective, presumably military pilots as a breed are selected as stable extraverts. |
They say the traits of a high functioning Asperger's, make a good fighter pilot. OCD's for controllers.
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Originally Posted by LONEWOLF 50
And sometimes, one discovers mid to late in training that they've hit the ceiling, or have hit a plateau.
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Bit harsh, BomberH? A proper fighter pilot would have smacked him in the nose and continued drinking the 10th of his 18 pints of that happy hour. Mind you, you were Crab Air, so I suppose allowances have to be made :} |
If the Air Forces and Navies of the world had a better way to drop in the old dip stick and figure out whose aptitude matched the needed traits best, they'd be using it. And I believe post-analysis showed many of the former to, in many cases, having been rated as average or below prior to combat having commenced. E.g. https://www.warhistoryonline.com/wor...ne-fokker.html |
A passing thought, anyone studied whether the proportion of left handedness is higher than normal amongst fighter pilots. In the 80s when I was at Neatishead I discussed the preponderance of left handedness amongst fighter controllers with Aunty Joan. Nothing scientific you understand, just seemed to be quite a lot of them.
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The ‘handedness’ debate is interesting. Before my first hop at Valley my primary asked if I was left handed, as he was - and anecdotally so were a high proportion of his force (Harrier) at the time. I’ve never bothered finding out if the anecdotal evidence was in anyway accurate. As a right hander I think I worried about it for a good second or two. |
Originally Posted by orca
(Post 10384920)
The ‘handedness’ debate is interesting. Before my first hop at Valley my primary asked if I was left handed, as he was - and anecdotally so were a high proportion of his force (Harrier) at the time. I’ve never bothered finding out if the anecdotal evidence was in anyway accurate. As a right hander I think I worried about it for a good second or two. |
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
(Post 10383329)
Oh dear, Fighter pilot and Jaguar in the same sentence 😁
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Handedness can be a disadvantage. Chief Forecasters at Bracknell CFO who were left handed were very unpopular because their work position was to the right of the Deputy and they perforce had to analyse, annotate and scribble on one chart. The ideal [I never saw it] was right hand Chief, Left hand Indian. Nobody had the whit to change seats.
Not to mention the totally colour blind chief, who, faced with colours red, blue and purple for fronts etc, routinely marked his crayons thus, only to have them b*ggered by a colleague with wrong labels. As if the job were not impossible for lesser mortals anyway. |
Originally Posted by Brian 48nav
(Post 10385935)
Had a word with the Off-spring yesterday, and he said ' Tell PN bloody cheek - Didn't you mention all my hours on Mirage 2000 and Gripen?' These ex-single seat guys can be a bit sensitive if they suspect a nav' is taking the p1ss!
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"Mommy, when I grow up, I want to be a fighter pilot."
"You're going to have to make a choice son ... you can't do both" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Contrary to popular opinion, the average fighter pilot is actually capable of feelings such as love, caring, tenderness and sharing. It's just that these feelings don't include anyone else :p |
Originally Posted by quantify
(Post 10384807)
That means there's no way for that individual to further learn and improve? How and why do you think this is, due to mental stress deterring performance or "not having the right stuff"?
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As the father of a fighter pilot, I was going to say that genetics are unlikely to be an issue. :( Then I reflected on his brother and sister's performances in the FA18 sim without prior flying experience and how his daughter gained her first sim-Mig kill at the age of five, compared with my PPL inspired sim disasters. I am am forced to conclude that genetics could be involved but, in my case, it was recessive. :{ |
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
(Post 10386231)
I think that you might be forgetting the tax payer in this equation. If you can't learn it in the amount of time (to include the extra time flights when one hits a hicccup) then the tax payer is not required to indulge anyone in their dream of being a fast jet pilot. Each nation and each service has a methodology on identifying weak points and finding out if they are a temporary set back or a case of "can't handle further difficulty." This has all been learned the hard way: In Blood.
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Originally Posted by CoodaShooda
(Post 10386282)
As the father of a fighter pilot, I was going to say that genetics are unlikely to be an issue. :( Then I reflected on his brother and sister's performances in the FA18 sim without prior flying experience and how his daughter gained her first sim-Mig kill at the age of five, compared with my PPL inspired sim disasters. I am am forced to conclude that genetics could be involved but, in my case, it was recessive. :{ |
Back when G-Loc was both lethal and a bit of a mystery, I recall someone remarking that the ideal fighter pilot was a short female with large glutes, who smoked and grunted a lot.
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there needs to be more research on fighter pilots in general |
IMHO, ORAC made a wise comment above under post #58.
In critical situations, with extreme motivation and tonns of perspirationthose who may not be genetically ideal may be the best of the best. IIRC, the average age of the British pilots ("The Few") who defended the country against "Goering aces" in 1940 was about 20. And I assume there was no thorough and timely psycho-medical selection at that time. But they won. Even in sport, where genetics really matters, there are many examples of that kind. E.g., there is African dominance in medium and long-distance running now. Looks understandable taking into account the anthropometry of Ethiopian and Kenyan guys (thin like sticks, etc). But interesting that only 3 or 4 outperformed British Seb Coe during last 35+ years since he set his fantastic record on 800 m back in early 80's. Or Russian Vladimir Kutz in 50's - he looked more like a boxer or power lifter, but thanks to outstanding training finally became a world and Olympic champ. |
Originally Posted by Herod
(Post 10384644)
So was I.
Don't be so sure. A pilot I respected greatly was on the Queen's Flight. Sadly he is no longer with us, but at the commemoration service, a Gp Capt was there, representing the Duke. Neither he nor the Duke suffered fools gladly, so I wouldn't be surprised if Phillip is a pretty good rotary driver, within the constraints of his official duties. |
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