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Did hope to see them depart past us but alas no, even brought in the box brownie,
Planes that took part in fly-past
You can watch it here https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1090779/Sheffield-flypast-live-video-RAF-2019-Endcliffe-Park-memorial-anniversary-BBC-watch .. |
To all the media whiners. Without 'banal journos' there would be no flypast and no story. Now the whole country knows about it, not least those people of Sheffield who had no idea. Charlie Stayt talking balls for a bit... that's ok.
CG |
Queen's Birthday Honours?
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Originally Posted by Herod
(Post 10397313)
Queen's Birthday Honours?
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Originally Posted by charliegolf
(Post 10397309)
To all the media whiners. Without 'banal journos' there would be no flypast and no story. Now the whole country knows about it, not least those people of Sheffield who had no idea. Charlie Stayt talking balls for a bit... that's ok.
CG |
More Information?
I appreciate the programme focus was on the flypast, and the old gentleman who has a story to tell, but I would have been interested to learn more about the circumstances of the crash. I don't expect a reliable report from a child 75 years after the event (and that's not meant as a criticism), but I wonder if there were any other eye witnesses, or was there any kind of official report at the time? If, as I heard someone say, Mi Amigo was on one engine then I guess her options were pretty limited. But if - as I also found - she was based at Chelveston, what was she doing over Sheffield? There's clearly a story to be told. All I have been able to discover is that the B17 was on her way back from a raid.
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I appreciate Dan Walker's initial publicity and efforts to commemorate the occasion but the way in which it was presented was a disgrace. As MG said, they presented it not as a commemoration but as a circus.
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USAAF B-17 42-31322 ?Mi Amigo?, Endcliffe Park, Sheffield ? aircrashsites.co.uk On 22 February 1944 Flying Fortress ‘Mi Amigo’ crashed in this public park in Sheffield with the loss of all 10 crew men on board. The B-17 had been on a raid on the German airfield at Ålborg in occupied Denmark (apparently Ålborg has the unwanted distinction of being the first city in the world to be taken by paratroopers). The airfield was home to Fw 190s and Bf 109s. These attacked the B-17s overhead, and pursued ‘Mi Amigo’ as bombardier Second Lt Hernandez, aware of the Danish civilians below, was unable to release the bombs due to cloud cover obscuring the target. Pilot First Lt Krieghauser’s aircraft was badly damaged by the attacking fighters. The bombs were released harmlessly over the North Sea as the B-17 limped back towards base in Northamptonshire. It is probable the navigation and communication equipment was out of service, and that some of the crew were dead or wounded from the attack. For whatever reasons, ‘Mi Amigo’ ended up 80 miles off course and circling low over the city of Sheffield. In Endcliffe Park, kids playing football watched as an engine finally cut, a wing dipped and the aircraft spiralled down into a wooded knoll next to the playing field. It is possible First Lieutenant Krieghauser was considering a crash landing on the playing field. This might also account for why some of the crew at least didn’t bail out. Eye witness accounts at the time (and there were many) are extremely harrowing and there seems no point in repeating them here. The memorial is surrounded by 10 American oaks planted in 1969, one for each crew member. |
COURAGE ABOVE THE CLOUDS: THE TRUE HEROIC STORY OF THE CREW OF B17 'MI AMIGO' (Courage in the Skies) Kindle Edition |
As ever - just my opinion. I appreciate - but disagree with - the views of those who would have favoured a more ‘measured’ occasion. Who are we to cast a critical eye on how it was done?Be grateful that it was done. Any act of remembrance is better than none. Those boys and plenty like them were part of a fight that took place so people such as the journalists and civilians would never need to understand what warfare actually entailed. Speaking as as someone who was very conscious whilst deployed that no one back home gave two hoots about the campaigns we were fighting. Would love to get the 135/ Typhoon debrief if anyone has it. |
Bloody good that. The eagle pulling up and punching away so, so evocative.
Great turn out from the public and the fallen were remembered and honoured. And that is all that is important. |
Very well done I thought watching the UTube video - and real people organising it - no "stars", politicians, media people and other low life - just a genuine tribute
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The Breakfast programme for 22/02/2019 is available here until 0915 23/02/19. Flypast starts 2hr:20min in :-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...kfast-22022019 This 4K edited version posted on YouTube:- Well done to all involved in the flypast! |
To Tony Foulds and all those involved in the flypast - chapeau!
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Just asking as someone from little Northern Ireland...was the RAF officer who was interviewed also an Ulsterman?
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For once the meejah have shown that there is still some intelligent life in its ranks. Presentation from Sheffield was a bit themeparkish but in doing it that way it did show respect in a way that even 'yoof' can understand. These days I am no fan of the Beeb and the Breakfast and One shows in particular. I feel the main presenters are banal and unprofessional. Stayt, Marchetti,Jones et al - do not float my boat at all. But I was moved to see even 'roughy toughy northern lass Steph' brushing away several tears today. Good that she could not see me doing similar. It would indeed be deserved if the old boy who has looked after the memorial all these years was to be officially recognised in the Honours List. Much more deserved, than an aging druggie singer or a corrupt businessman? The missing man formation was most effective. Well done and thank you USAF. |
Thanks, Orac. Just for interest sake, here is something I found on a 'USAAF Losses' website at 1942 USAAF Serial Numbers (42-30032 to 42-39757) - Transferred to 305th BG, 364th BS at Chelveston, named 'Mi Amigo'. Damaged in raid on Aschersleben, Bernberg and Halberstadt, Brunde, Wernegerode, Madeburg
and crashed in Endcliffe Park, Sheffield, England Feb 22, 1944. 10 crew killed. Targets don't match - just goes to show you can't believe everything you see on the Internet! |
Yellow Sun: If you followed ORAC's link and then scrolled through the links to the 364th Bomb Squadron, you'd see that it does give Aalborg as their target, Day 3 of "Big Week"
Aalborg was a big Luftwaffe base, with both Bf109 and Fw190 fighters based there, so they were able to get into the formations above their base while the bombers were trying to locate the airfield and avoid bombing civilians. It also implies that 3 of the crew were mortally wounded (seems to be radio operator, ball and rear turret gunners) but how that information was gathered I can't say, perhaps a report did get through to their base. If the navigator was also wounded, that might explain them being so far off course. The weather that day had heavy cloud up to over 20,000 feet, making formation keeping impossible and accounting for the 39 bombers, out of some 790 despatched, shot down and 141 with battle damage. |
Thanks for posting that link Yellow Sun, the data makes for very interesting and poignant reading. There was a mid-air on the same day as the loss of Mi Amigo but what struck me was this one...
38002 (401st BG, 614th BS) shot down by flak and fighter on mission to Ocherslaben Feb 22, 1944. MACR 2661. 2 KIA, 8 POW. Tail gunner was unable to bail out with the other crew members because his parachute was riddled with machine gun fire but he survived because the plane landed itself in a field. If it's not your time to go then fate will intervene. |
How eloquent was the young Megan Low speaking this morning. A relative of one of the American bomber crew she pitched her remarks perfectly. |
The Fly Over's were a nice touch.....but my thoughts go to the Man who for all these years has honored the Ten Airmen who died that day....and has done so without fanfare or reward....beyond that internal reward such a wonderfully kind deed provides to the doer.
A walk up the entry path to the American Hangar at Duxford reminds one of the very real sacrifice made by American Airmen during the War and that these Ten were just one crew of so many. To take a moment of time to remember these Ten....and one Man's dedication is a good thing....but let's not overlook all those in many militaries and many air forces who paid such a dear price to defend our freedom in those dark days. When I consider the staggering cost in human lives and destroyed families caused by that War.....I remember the opening scene of "Saving Private Ryan" as Old Man Ryan enters the Cemetery followed by his extended family.....and see each Gravestone representing a lost family such as Ryan's behind him that never was. |
Circus? Clowns!
"but the way in which it was presented was a disgrace. As MG said, they presented it not as a commemoration but as a circus."
To those who have opined that this was a circus, or presented as a circus, perhaps you know best because you seem to have put your oversized shoes in your lipsticked mouths? My opinion is that you have shown great disrespect for the thousands of people who attended and contributed to the commemoration of the Sheffield Park crash, and to the millions of people that see this as an 'ad hoc' memorial event no less significant than the regular remembrance events. Shame on you. |
PUP.
Once again wish there was a "Like" button. Well said. PM |
What was the average of the crew?
Perhaps they would have enjoyed the pagent and the overwhelming feeling of both respect and enjoyment of the myriad of people there? Just a thought.... |
Originally Posted by PUP
(Post 10398201)
"but the way in which it was presented was a disgrace. As MG said, they presented it not as a commemoration but as a circus."
To those who have opined that this was a circus, or presented as a circus, perhaps you know best because you seem to have put your oversized shoes in your lipsticked mouths? My opinion is that you have shown great disrespect for the thousands of people who attended and contributed to the commemoration of the Sheffield Park crash, and to the millions of people that see this as an 'ad hoc' memorial event no less significant than the regular remembrance events. Shame on you. |
The event at Sheffield commemorating a particular crew, or crew member, is similar to what happens here in SW France. Last Saturday 16 February, I, along with 6 Overseas visitors who were relatives of the deceased pilot and 18 RAFA members ( including some PPruners ), attended the 75th Annual Anniversary of the loss of a Stirling and crew on that date in 1944. The ceremony was conducted by the village mayor and attended by a crowd of the local people. There were 15 Standards and several " Maquis " re-enactors. The ceremony was followed by " Vin d'Honneur " and lunch at a local restaurant. Last year I, along with other RAFA members, attended several such events all commemorating a particular RAF/Allied crew, or crew member lost in support of the Resistance in the area. Unfortunately no flypast.
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It’s important to put the Sheffield event into context. It was not a remembrance ceremony per se but a response to a dedicated British pensioner’s long-held desire for a flypast to salute his ten American heroes. As a corollary, it also served as a tribute to all 30,000 USAAF aircrew killed while serving in the UK in WWII.
I understand that the RAFA has conducted a formal service of remembrance at Endcliffe Park annually for many years and, commendably, will continue to do so. Tony Foulds’ complementary attention to the memorial is, perhaps, more to do with his involvement as a witness to the crash and his feelings since. After yesterday’s spectacle, the F-15s flew over the American Military Cemetery at Madingley, where three of Mi Amigo’s crew are buried. The site is a proper place for the formal remembrance of US service personnel, which was duly observed at the men’s graves. No need, or desire, for a red sofa there. But let’s not denigrate the BBC’s efforts. I imagine USAFE chiefs, and the US Embassy, were delighted to have the opportunity (via Tony Foulds’ story) to highlight American aircrews’ WWII sacrifices and possibly inform a new generation about their presence here 75 years ago. It’s important to bear in mind that yesterday’s event also made the news in the Mi Amigo crew’s homeland, where attitudes to armed forces commemorations differ somewhat from the UK’s. I had an e-mail this morning from a former commanding general (CG) of the US Eighth Air Force, in which he said: “What an incredible event. I wish I could have been there. May God bless Mr Foulds.” I, for one, would second that. |
Originally Posted by weemonkey
(Post 10398233)
What was the average of the crew?
Perhaps they would have enjoyed the pagent and the overwhelming feeling of both respect and enjoyment of the myriad of people there? Just a thought.... |
My old RAF boss (Peter Maillard) has just posted this on Facebook, he actually saw the wreckage shortly after the crash.
"I have the honour to have seen the still smouldering wreckage [and seeing a foot in a flying boot] after school on the day. The crash site was relatively small in the edge of the wooded slope just off a series of footpaths which bordered the grassed area The pilot could have landed on the big grass recreational area but it was full of playing people, he did indeed sacrifice himself and crew to save others. The memorial area is a credit to all in Sheffield." |
Originally Posted by ricardian
(Post 10398373)
My old RAF boss (Peter Maillard) has just posted this on Facebook, he actually saw the wreckage shortly after the crash.
"I have the honour to have seen the still smouldering wreckage [and seeing a foot in a flying boot] after school on the day. The crash site was relatively small in the edge of the wooded slope just off a series of footpaths which bordered the grassed area The pilot could have landed on the big grass recreational area but it was full of playing people, he did indeed sacrifice himself and crew to save others. The memorial area is a credit to all in Sheffield." |
Originally Posted by XV490
(Post 10398287)
It’s important to put the Sheffield event into context. It was not a remembrance ceremony per se but a response to a dedicated British pensioner’s long-held desire for a flypast to salute his ten American heroes. As a corollary, it also served as a tribute to all 30,000 USAAF aircrew killed while serving in the UK in WWII.
I understand that the RAFA has conducted a formal service of remembrance at Endcliffe Park annually for many years and, commendably, will continue to do so. Tony Foulds’ complementary attention to the memorial is, perhaps, more to do with his involvement as a witness to the crash and his feelings since. After yesterday’s spectacle, the F-15s flew over the American Military Cemetery at Madingley, where three of Mi Amigo’s crew are buried. The site is a proper place for the formal remembrance of US service personnel, which was duly observed at the men’s graves. No need, or desire, for a red sofa there. But let’s not denigrate the BBC’s efforts. I imagine USAFE chiefs, and the US Embassy, were delighted to have the opportunity (via Tony Foulds’ story) to highlight American aircrews’ WWII sacrifices and possibly inform a new generation about their presence here 75 years ago. It’s important to bear in mind that yesterday’s event also made the news in the Mi Amigo crew’s homeland, where attitudes to armed forces commemorations differ somewhat from the UK’s. I had an e-mail this morning from a former commanding general (CG) of the US Eighth Air Force, in which he said: “What an incredible event. I wish I could have been there. May God bless Mr Foulds.” I, for one, would second that. |
Over Here!
I imagine USAFE chiefs, and the US Embassy, were delighted to have the opportunity (via Tony Foulds’ story) to highlight American aircrews’ . . . presence here 75 years ago. . |
F15 cockpit video.
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A Fantastic Event
What a lovely Old Boy to have tended the Memorial for so long and his wish to have his ashes scattered there is particularly touching. I didn’t see anything distasteful at all, quite the opposite. Enjoyed every minute of it. TN. |
US Air Force coverage of Sunday's formal follow-up ceremony and church service in Sheffield here.
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