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Originally Posted by James Blatch
(Post 10338592)
FOLLOW UP: The dead man's bar bill appears to have been patchy in its tradition. But would there have been a gathering in the bar that night (regardless of this tradition)? Or would people have gone home to their wives/families?
The RAF has been doing this since at least WW2 but sticking together with mates who have been through the same experience before going home is now, I believe , the best practice amongst the emergency services following a traumatic event. |
James: I've learned a thing or two from this thread myself, I must say, and I'll probably be a buyer for your book based on its likely Argosy content alone! Something you might want to check out is whether there was a need to build a village at Porton for the testing you mention. The MOD had, and probably still has, Imber village located well inside the Salisbury Plain Training Area (SPTA). It was taken over by the War Office in WW2, its inhabitants were displaced elsewhere, and it was retained for Army training use after the war with a certain amount of additional building carried out. If we were indeed testing 'gas bombs' back then, I'd have thought that was a more remote location than Porton for doing so.
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Originally Posted by James Blatch
(Post 10338592)
FOLLOW UP: The dead man's bar bill appears to have been patchy in its tradition. But would there have been a gathering in the bar that night (regardless of this tradition)? Or would people have gone home to their wives/families?
There was a 'chick lit' novel written be a British journalist about such fatalities on a USAF F100 Sqn in UK. She got under the skin of the matter and I could read the parallels. |
Thoroughly enjoying the gen, thank you all very much: @Pontius Navigator @ARCHIE1 @Brian 48nav @tlightb @oxenos @ICM @Cornish Jack @fareastdriver @charliejuliet @Tengah Type @Dougie M @Timelord @Retreating Blade @spekesoftly @rlsbutler @alwayslookingup (@tankertrashnav ;)) |
I remember funerals/wakes in the 60’s and 70’s on two separate occasions. The latter was a young co-pilot killed in a car crash near Marham a long time ago. The funeral took place at Norwich Crematorium and the Wake was held in the Mess. We all drank on this young man’s Bar Bill (some of us to excess). At the next Mess Meeting some months later, the Mess Sec pointed out, in the ‘Any other business’ bit, that there was an unpaid Bar Bill by the late Fg Off Bloggs. One guy stood up and proposed that it should be written off. The PMC asked for a Seconder and someone complied. There was a vote, and unsuprisingly, it was unanimous, and the Mess, collectively, paid the bill |
Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav
(Post 10339516)
Goes off to sulk!
(@tankertrashnav ;)) @MPN11 :) Whilst not exactly relevant to the book, I was on a staff visit to Binbrook in the 80s when they lost one of their Lightnings. FlyPro cancelled, and all and sundey repaired to the Bar to drink his farewell. Proceedings were well under way by the time I’d finished my task. Unless my memory has fogged, one of his flying boots (presumably from a spare pair in his locker) was nailed to the Bar ceiling to join others sadly displayed there. |
NRU74, that seems more likely than drinking on the day.
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NRU74, that seems more likely than drinking on the day. Not necessarily - We lost our co-pilot in K'sar when he fell through the boom hatch, in the dark, doing the pre-flight. He died from his injuries and was buried that afternoon. In spite of the 'caring' offer of the local Wg Cdr Fg to provide another co-pilot, our Skipper (Andy Andrusekevic(sp?)), forcefully expressed his opinion and took us all off to the bar. Alcohol can help, at times!! |
CJ,
Andy was on 48 on Hercs then wing pilot at Changi,( 67-69 ), Top Man. Just checked my log book for correct spelling, I hope! - Andrusikiewicz. |
Sqn Ldr A to Z as he was fondly known. I think he finished his career in the C130 sim at Lyneham. Top bloke!
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Andy A to Z was, as were a lot of his compatriots, still unable to master fluent English after forty years of RAF service. In the Herc sim one day after briefing a departure from Akrotiri in the bird migration season, he stepped forward at rotate speed and dumped a pile of APs in the captain's lap. He then pronounced "Emmer gency, emmer gency, Flamingo comes through window, kills Captain. Copilot you have control!" The subsequent immediate actions and checklists were carried out with suppressed giggles.Top bloke as Jete says.
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Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav
(Post 10339516)
Goes off to sulk!
(@tankertrashnav ;)) So sorry @tankertrashnav and THANK YOU :)
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
(Post 10339510)
This is probably as patchy too. By curious coincidence I was not on-base when any of the IX Vulcans crashed but there was another tradition you haven't picked up on and that was the dead man's sale. The Effects Officer would recover all Service issue uniforms and kit such as flying kit. The rest of the kit, such as hats and gloves, uniforms and mess kit, would, with NOK permission, be auctioned off people often paying well over the odds. The rationale was that death in service benefits were not generous and a 'wife of' in quarters had 62 days to vacate. She could also become ab outcast as a living reminder of the vulnerability of their men.
There was a 'chick lit' novel written be a British journalist about such fatalities on a USAF F100 Sqn in UK. She got under the skin of the matter and I could read the parallels.
Originally Posted by MPN11
(Post 10339913)
Well, as you’ve mentioned it, ditto! @MPN11 :) Whilst not exactly relevant to the book, I was on a staff visit to Binbrook in the 80s when they lost one of their Lightnings. FlyPro cancelled, and all and sundey repaired to the Bar to drink his farewell. Proceedings were well under way by the time I’d finished my task. Unless my memory has fogged, one of his flying boots (presumably from a spare pair in his locker) was nailed to the Bar ceiling to join others sadly displayed there. |
James, I don’t think anyone has answered your question about uniform to church on a Sunday. I think the answer is no, except perhaps the Duty Officer and NCOs, should they choose to go. |
TL, you prompt me with a memory.
The norm of the age was to repair to the Mess for a post-church stiffener. The stn cdr other brass would gather too and frequently joined by the padre. The Jesuit or RC Chaplain was usually a liver-in. Where uniform would be worn was after a Church Parade though these were rare even in the 60s but drinks still afterwards. |
Originally Posted by Timelord
(Post 10342301)
James, I don’t think anyone has answered your question about uniform to church on a Sunday. I think the answer is no, except perhaps the Duty Officer and NCOs, should they choose to go. |
Being neither commissioned nor a mason in the 60s I cannot really add to the excellent answers on drinking on dead mates bar bills or the subsequent disposal of his property given above. However in RAFG,, all ranks Friday p.ss ups on the worlds oldest fixed wing Sqn (II AC) were generally known as "Beer Calls". They usually lasted from about 16:00 to 19:00 when erks and zobs would split to their own watering holes. Zobs to the Mess in flying kit and us lot to Snoopies bar in our denims. The entertainment would usually finish around dawn. In our case, it would probably end in Mamas in Weeze. As for kit disposal, I can confirm that if the deceased was an 'Inventory holder' then any discreapancies found on a closing check would be 'written off'. Joking aside - the Squadron ethos and the aircrew/groundcrew bond in RAFG was second to none. Good luck with the book! |
In the 60s There were best blue Church Parades on Sunday's at many training camps IIRC. On arrival at the CofE church the order to halt was quickly followed by another more contravertial one... "Fall out, the Roman Catholics and Jews" I don't suppose that is still the case. |
Originally Posted by oldmansquipper
(Post 10347618)
"Fall out, the Roman Catholics and Jews" I don't suppose that is still the case. |
Originally Posted by oldmansquipper
(Post 10347618)
In the 60s There were best blue Church Parades on Sunday's at many training camps IIRC. On arrival at the CofE church the order to halt was quickly followed by another more contravertial one... "Fall out, the Roman Catholics and Jews" I don't suppose that is still the case. |
RAFC 1968
"Fall out Roman Catholics ,Jews and other Heathens" |
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