I presume that means a small corridor at HW will acquire a 11Gp plaque rather than buy back BP - and have no historical connection with either air defence or fighter aircraft?

Clearly there must be some Air ranks without a job, so problem solved.

The Chief says that no new posts will be formed and that it will be taken from within. So I suspect that will mean that AVM Steve Shell, as COS Ops, is about to become AOC 11Gp? What is not clear is whether that will be within Air Cmd where it currently sits or a completely new Group.

Reunion in the Crypt Bar anyone???

I think it has already been announced that 12 (Typhoon) Sqn will form at Conningsby so I guess IX will be at Lossie.

Both IX and 31 are seeing Tornado out, appropriately as IX was the first front line Tornado unit. The Lossie outfit will presumably grow in number under a (Des) banner until taking the mantle officially on Tornado’s retirement.

IX (briefly) counted Hugh Dowding among its early commanders and was equipped with Bristol Fighters at the end of WW1, so is not all that far behind II(AC) or 6 in terms of air defence heritage - and I don’t hear of them getting any stick for their principally air-to-ground histories. Lists of battle honours don’t come much longer or distinguished than IX’s. Notwithstanding any of that, the idea that a single-digit squadron with an ex-boss on his fourth active 4-star appointment (now the senior military man in NATO) was ever going to be laid up is simply a non-starter!

PN - that is an extant 2-star JFC post. The 2-star AOC 11Gp will be what was COS Ops in Air Cmd. Also, for those RAF Aircrew on here, he is also Head of the Flying Branch and Non-Commissioned Aircrew.

And Susannah York as MA/AOC 11!

Uh oh, now you’ve done it Melchey. Cue BEagle and more Section Officer Harvey banter....

LJ - if your prediction is correct, would that be Shelly wearing 3 hats, or would the COS Ops job become defunct? Also, is there another FHQ in the pot with a job for another 1* and his/her team?

PA -I believe that the COS Ops AOR will become 11Gp. What I don’t yet understand is how that stacks up against the other Groups that were before subservient to what was a HQ Air function in a similar way that COS Pers is for personnel. But 38Gp probably mirrors what 11Gp will become? I’m sure this will come into play with the Air Transformation work due to be reported soon?

I think that 2 (Typhoon) Sqn was busy forming at Lossie whilst 2 (Tornado) was still going at Marham. Then when the late decision to retain 3 GR4 Sqns was taken because of Op Shader, 2 (Tornado) had to become 12 Sqn, which had itself just disbanded at Lossie!

It happened when the Lightning squadrons in Germany transitioned to the Phantom; also the Jaguar squadrons began life as, for example 6(Designate), losing the ‘designate’ suffix upon the Phantom FBSA airframes moving to the AD role. I forget off the top of my head if those squadrons renumbered or whether we had 111(Designate), 23 (Designate) while the Lightning squadrons with those numberplates disbanded.

The practice was mooted for Typhoon, but as I recall there wasn’t enough money nor enough people to allow the F3 and Jaguar squadron (i.e. 6) to continue with their previous airframe while the ‘designate’ Squadron worked up on type and then took over the role.

When this was done, the squadron with the old type would traditionally cease to exist on type at 2359hrs on the due day, take a minute (metaphorically) re-equip and then, at 0001, would be in a position to resume work with its new aircraft.

Well, I suppose It depends on how you define “stood up” (urgh). There were certainly pilots wearing 2 Sqn badges flying Typhoons from Lossie whilst 2 at Marham we’re still going but no, the Sqn Standard had not been transferred yet.

Thanks RP. The word “currently” is a nice little get-out clause but no difference in dates between the squadrons at the moment.

Just goes to show how wary you need to be of media reports!