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Timelord, The GR4 delivered weapons in anger at LL about a month ago: 8 Storm Shadows. Almost certainly flying radalt heights over sea rather than using the TFR, but that’s a technicality! As others have already observed, missions such as that are the measure by which the RAF should be judged. Not flypasts on poor weather days in congested airspace over the Pennines. |
One more thing.
I suppose the one thing missing from all the previous replies is a simple answer. Does the RAF still possess an all weather capability? The answer is yes. If someone had asked the RAF to bomb Derwent Dam yesterday they could have, with a choice of weapons. Asking for a peace time flypast isn’t quite the same thing. All weather in 1943 and all weather in 2018 are two very different kettles of fish. Thankfully the potential risks are far less than they were in 1943 as well. BV |
Of course, if the RAF decide to put up a very public display of any sort, they better have a good idea of the reaction if it goes wrong. I suspect that few would argue with the problems of safely operating a 75 year old Lancaster in limiting conditions and, the decision not to fly. However, poor coordination of the follow-up obviously generated disappointment. The inability of the RAF to flypast any of its frontline aircraft on target and on a given time gives a stark illustration of a weakness. It doesn't matter that the near future IMC LL capability that the RAF has chosen will be limited to and wholly owned by cruise missiles because, in the context of a public flypast, if it is late, goes wrong or is a cok-up, it is a failure.
OAP |
All said and done, an opportunity for positive PR reversed, not by the fault of Aircrew, but by poor communications. Net result pretty much the same though....
But the real and ongoing PR disaster relates to the point made earlier by Mr Vice. The overwhelming majority of the public, and it would appear our politicians, seem to have little if any appreciation of the extent of the ongoing RAF activity in Syria/Iraq, and absolutely none of what it is intended to achieve and when it might end. |
Yep, don't get me wrong, I am posting the comments I heard frequently during the day over this farce, and some were a lot more vocal, the fact the dams are in a technology blackspot with no mobiles or internet didn't help as people had to rely on the information being handed out incorrectly, but either way it was without doubt a total RAF PR disaster...
Myself I decided to go because it was somewhere close by that I hadn't visited and it gave me the excuse to pop along and photograph the area, which is what I did, it taught me however that if they ever managed to do it again to take the 70-200 2.8 and not the 100-400 lens as from the position we were the lens was to long to get the aircraft over the dam, either that or take my second body along with a 24-105 on it as it might be better. The fact the Typhoon FGR4 is being touted as the RAF's new mudmover seems to be at odds with " renders Typhoon superbly equipped for all aspects of air operations" unless that is in the ****ty wet and cloud covered countryside that the covers most of Europe and beyond. It seems strange to build a warplane that cannot operate in what would be its primary theatre. https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/typhoon-fgr4/ .. |
Originally Posted by Two's in
(Post 10148839)
Yes, they do have an an all-weather capability.
https://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/i...EW-FR-BRIT.jpg |
Congratulations to all!
The last surviving member who took part in the iconic Dambusters raid in May 1943 has taken to the skies again in a Lancaster bomber which has flown over Derbyshire this morning. Squadron Leader George ‘Johnny’ Johnson MBE, DFM , who took part in Operation Chastise, flew on board the Royal Air Force Battle of Britain Memorial Flight Lancaster to mark the 75th anniversary of the raid. Johnny flew in the bomb aimer's position he had in 1943, as the aircraft flew over the dams in the Derwent Valley, just as he did 75 years ago whist training for the 617 Squadron raid on the German dams. Officer commanding BBMF, Squadron Leader Andrew Milikin said: "We are thrilled that we are able to finally mark this amazing anniversary in such a poignant way. "It was always our intent to pay tribute to Johnny as the last British Dambuster by carrying out this sortie on May 16 1943 and we were bitterly disappointed that the weather stopped us yesterday. https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/new...yshire-1576961 |
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Good job. :ok:
Heard him on Radio 4 yesterday afternoon. Modest and well spoken chap it seemed to me. Arc |
This is the Tiffie flypast and also an indication of the weather throughout the day
https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/new...yphoon-1572264 |
As for Jonny Johnson. he's getting around, he was doing a bit of gardening the other day too and good on him at his age :ok:
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/n...nished-1570922 I think this will look superb when done. |
Originally Posted by Timelord
(Post 10149036)
JAJ - OK, how about “ Hasn’t delivered weapons in anger at L L since then” TL Much as it pains me to admit it, but for pure style the Harrier KRET delivered during an apparent show-of-force profile will take some beating. |
Originally Posted by Just This Once...
(Post 10149333)
Loads of us have done just that, with and without TFR help. Much as it pains me to admit it, but for pure style the Harrier KRET delivered during an apparent show-of-force profile will take some beating. TL |
Timelord,
Tornado GR4 in Afghanistan, and strafe as well as low level show of force, far more impressive, noisy and shocking than a Harrier! Typhoon and Tornado GR4 in Syria/Iraq currently. It's all on the MoD website on a daily basis of sorties, weapons used and effect achieved, go look for yourself rather than carping on about it never happening. |
OAP
You mention that IMC LL strike means Storm Shadow. Surely, since you were once a pilot, you can appreciate there is more than one way to skin a cat. Why does the target need need to be bombed from LL in this day and age? What’s wrong with a GPS guided munition from an aircraft that can’t be seen on radar? It may not be as much fun but it’s just as efffective and potentially far less risky. As much as we all love a bit of low level, times have moved on. Thankfully we are getting the tools to move with them. Even if they are a little pricey! BV |
Originally Posted by minigundiplomat
(Post 10148869)
With so many cuts since 1990, I am not sure the RAF still has an all day capability.
It's even worse in the Royal Navy - working weeks were cut to just Tuesday-Thursday some years ago. |
Heathrow Harry,
Nonsense! Doing some work right now with a large Government Ministry and nothing could be further from the truth! |
Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry
(Post 10149454)
same as the Civil Service then....................
For the Met Office to function it always has had to staff some posts 24/7. One of those staff at Coningsby had the unpleasant experience of briefing a no-show yesterday .......... never the forecaster's decision, but always a nasty personal experience. Well done to all concerned, but a pity about the PR. Life's a bitch ....................... |
Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry
(Post 10149454)
same as the Civil Service then....................
You utter cockwomble. |
Do I detect fish rising?
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