USS Lexington found and the condition of the Aircraft is staggering
Probably not the place to post it, but I hope some of you like it
See link for video https://www.geekwire.com/2018/paul-a...years-sinking/ Pail Allen has found the Lexington!! - General Discussion - LSP Forums https://i.imgur.com/4slEPPY.jpg https://i.imgur.com/PBcvpdG.jpg https://i.imgur.com/tBiFBHZ.jpg |
Well done Mr. Allen!
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WOW, just WOW!!!!
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Wow! VF 3, famous USN squadron. Can't have been too many squadron pilots with 4 kills at that point of the war. Butch O'Hare?? Great work, I believe there are still liberty ships at the bottom of the Coral Sea with P 38, 39 and 40's packed in boxes .....
http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/574/pics/3_9_b1.jpg |
He could have saved a bit of money and simply driven down Interstate 37.
https://usslexington.com/ Well done, Mr Allen and the team for seeing this through.:} |
Originally Posted by Iron Bar
(Post 10074559)
Wow! VF 3, famous USN squadron. Can't have been too many squadron pilots with 4 kills at that point of the war. Butch O'Hare??
F-13 also wore 4 kill flags at the same time as well, and F-1 wore 3 kill flags. The TBD's shown are combat vets that took part in the attack on the Shokaku and the Shoho. T-4 and T-9 shown scored confirmed hits on the Shoho. Incredible that the doped fabric rudder surfaces have not only survived but look like they only sunk a few days ago!! |
Originally Posted by GeeRam
(Post 10074742)
Incredible that the doped fabric rudder surfaces have not only survived but look like they only sunk a few days ago!!
I think that tends to reflect the fact that (if the depth reading on the stills is to be believed) she's over 9000ft down. Not much lives down there to affect the fabric etc... |
Wiki has a good article on "The Lady Lex" . The hull will probably be in good condition as the ship was scuttled because of uncontainable fires.
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Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin
(Post 10074790)
I think that tends to reflect the fact that (if the depth reading on the stills is to be believed) she's over 9000ft down. Not much lives down there to affect the fabric etc...
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Historians have been doing a bit of digging plus blowing up the photos to reveal at least 3 letters from the name under the cockpit, seems in all probability that this F-4 was the mount of Noel Gayler, which tallies with the single bomb mission and the 4 kill flags.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4796/...a51a5b30_o.jpg Gaylor later became a USN TP at Pax and eventually became Admiral Gayler, and served as US Naval Attache in London 1960-62, retired in 1976, and only passed away in 2011 aged 96. |
but also a representative from Microsoft actually doing something useful. . . . Paul Allen has been doing useful things for the aviation community for many years: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyi...t_Armor_Museum Here’s my favourite - an airworthy Dora: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/71/68/11/7...48bbff7686.jpg |
For general background, Felix with the lit fuse and the Lexington are mentioned here in our flexible Wiki friend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VFA-31
VFA-31, was originally established as VF-1B on July 1, 1935 flying the F4B, making it the second oldest active US Navy squadron behind VFA-14 which was originally established in 1919. On 1 July 1937, the squadron combined with VF-8B and was redesignated VF-6, flying the F3F. Between the years 1937 and 1943 VF-6 flew the F3F-1 and two variants of the F4F Wildcat and ended with the F4F-4. On 15 July 1943, VF-6 swapped designations with VF-3 and began flying the F6F Hellcat. A VF-6 F4F-3 aboard USS Enterprise, March 1942. Through the years the squadron and their predecessors have served on many of the Navy's aircraft carriers, including the first, the USS Langley; the second, USS Lexington; and the sixth, USS Enterprise. They were aboard Enterprise during the Attack on Pearl Harbor as well as the battles of Wake Island, Marcus Island, Midway, Guadalcanal, and the Eastern Solomon Islands. The squadron also saw aerial combat over the Philippines, Formosa, Okinawa, and China. |
Originally Posted by India Four Two
(Post 10075227)
NAROBS,
Paul Allen has been doing useful things for the aviation community for many years: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyi...t_Armor_Museum |
Official report into the loss and how it happened
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN...al-prelim.html Paul Allens site that shows the discoveries of the Indianapolis, Hood, Muasashi etc https://www.paulallen.com/uss-indian...ery-materials/ https://www.paulallen.com/tag/underwater-exploration |
There's a B777 waiting to be found a fair bit to the west.
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Surely, only sealed compartments would be subjected to crushing. An open aircraft structure would experience the same pressure on both sides.
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He bought the Dora airworthy and it has never flown since being rebuilt as it was deemed to precious, Kurt Tank the designer, when he was still alive wanted them to enter it at Reno and race it.
https://www.airspacemag.com/history-...ow-10-4310601/ .. |
"I understand that the returning RN Pacific Fleet, in 1945, ditched a large number of airworthy lend-lease American kit overboard - to keep post-war scrap prices high?"
An uncle of mine was a Hellcat pilot on HMS Pursuer (with the BPF) in the last few months of the war and he used to tell that after VJ day the aeroplanes were dumped into the sea because if they were written-off as war losses then the UK did not have to pay for them. |
JOE-FBS (#21),
The position was this, under the terms of the Lend-Lease Agreement, the US had lent us these aircraft to fight a war. The War was over. Now we must (1) hand back anything they wanted (eg Dakotas): these, refitted as DC-3s, would be the backbone of short-haul civil aviation for years after the war; some are flying yet. Or (2) if they didn't want them, we could (3) buy them (at a discounted price in scarce Us dollars), or (4), if we didn't want them either, we must destroy them completely, so that no part could come back on the market to compete with new US sales. It made perfect sense, really. I had three Mk.III Vengeance, nobody wanted them (not even a single one as a museum specimen). My Group ordered me to burn them where they stood. I jibbed: they threatened me with Court Martial (but that is another story for another day). Your uncle's Hellcats went that way (as did brand-new, crated aircraft, on the way to war zones, they were simply bull-dozed over the side of carrier decks). Pity, I suppose. Danny. |
I don't think anyone is thinking of recovery.
I am assuming that the ship is actually a war grave (although this doesn't seem to stop desecration of wrecks such as the Prince of Wales or the Repulse by trophy hunters and scrapmen). Let's leave her as she is. Arc |
Actually they do not deem the aircraft as such.
From Flypast mags link It's still a war grave no matter how far the debris field is scattered, and as such I concur with others that they should not be touched. I spoke with the US Navy History & Heritage Command and they do not consider the aircraft found as war graves, only the ship. |
Slight thread drift but a genuine question, if any one knows the answer? I've googled loads and can't find it...
Why are US Navy squadrons known as VFx, be that VFA, VFN or whatever? Genuinely curious here. CS |
The 'V' comes from the french 'voler' - to fly. So all aircraft carriers are CV..., which means Aviation Cruiser, with a 'N' for nuclear - don't get me started on the correct pronunciation :ugh:.
So, fixed wing squadrons inherited the 'V' and the second letter indicates Fighter (VF), Attack (VA) Fighter/Attack (VFA), Patrol (VP); except for marine squadrons which are always 'VMx...'. Helicopter squadrons start with a 'H' and lighter-than-air (blimps) used to start with 'Z'. Since I'm not allowed to post links :ouch:, have a look at the wikipedia articles on USN hull classification codes and the list of USN flying squadrons. Hope this answers the question |
V is for fixed wing and H is foe helicopter.
Hence HU is Helicopter Utility squadron VF is for Fixed-wing Fighter. |
It's interesting that Low Background Steel seems to be of interest to the scrap metal merchants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel Low-background steel is any steel produced prior to the detonation of the first atomic bombs in the 1940s and 1950s. With the Trinity test and the Atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, and then subsequent nuclear weapons testing during the early years of the Cold War, background radiation levels increased across the world. Modern steel is contaminated with radionuclides because its production uses atmospheric air. Low background steel is so called because it does not suffer from such nuclear contamination. This steel is used in devices that require the highest sensitivity for detecting radionuclides. The primary source of low-background steel is ships that were constructed before the Trinity test, most famously the scuttled German World War I battleships in Scapa Flow.[3] |
Originally Posted by cargosales
(Post 10076422)
Slight thread drift but a genuine question, if any one knows the answer? I've googled loads and can't find it...
Why are US Navy squadrons known as VFx, be that VFA, VFN or whatever? Genuinely curious here. CS |
Originally Posted by Jetex_Jim
(Post 10076543)
Is the Lexington considered too deep to be salvaged?
I can't find details now, but I read a while ago that there have been issues with illegal salvage operators in certain parts of the far East recently, with entire wrecks disappearing. I don't know whether Lexington is in the area of concern, but if it is I hope they're not revealing the precise location. |
I always thought V meant heavier than air, this related to the fact that when the designation came into use there were no helicopters, just airships ‘lighter than air’ and fixed wing ‘heavier than air’. Could be a complete red herring though!
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Originally Posted by pasta
(Post 10076628)
I can't find details now, but I read a while ago that there have been issues with illegal salvage operators in certain parts of the far East recently, with entire wrecks disappearing. I don't know whether Lexington is in the area of concern, but if it is I hope they're not revealing the precise location.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...S-Houston.html |
Paul Allen does it again - USS Juneau found
Near the Solomon Islands. Famous for the 5 Sullivan brothers that died as a result of the torpedo attack. A bit of irony that they found it on St. Patricks Day. Lexington, Indianpolis - all of major importance in WWII. Good work Paul Allen!
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Narobs
A cold and hostile place the Barents Sea. Generally 230m deep and dropping to 600m to the west in a line from Svalbard via Bjørnøya to Norway.
And very much a nightmare for sailors from 1941 to 1945. My Grand Uncle Olav had multiple trips on a Nortraship, a Knudsen tanker no less. 6 years he sailed, including a few trips to Arkangelsk. We owe them everything. I think current, oxygen and general marine life has wore down a lot in the Barent Sea. Regardless , wrecks inside Norwegian territory here are classified as War Graves and off limits. |
MH370
Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was
(Post 10075590)
There's a B777 waiting to be found a fair bit to the west.
I was thinking that too. MH370 might be a better use of the resources. Interesting though. |
Originally Posted by jimjim1
(Post 10093378)
Mmmmm.
I was thinking that too. MH370 might be a better use of the resources. Interesting though. It's fascinating to know that there are good examples of rare aeroplanes awaiting the day that somebody is ready to recover them responsibly. It would also be nice to know that some kind of open water policing could protect them from random pilfering but that seems to be pretty ineffective at the moment. |
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