PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Military Aviation (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation-57/)
-   -   RCAF Hornet replacement. (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/604606-rcaf-hornet-replacement.html)

GlobalNav 4th Dec 2021 16:23


Originally Posted by Davef68 (Post 11150716)
They might deny it publicly, but I think Boeing is still a dirty word in the Canadian Govt after the A220 farago

Not just in Canada.

Petit-Lion 4th Dec 2021 19:48


Originally Posted by rattman (Post 11150976)
Maybe its only buy a small amount like 20 or so and allow themselves to kick the can down the street again for another couple of years

Can already kicked. Canada is buying second-hand Hornets from Australia "for parts".

Foghorn Leghorn 4th Dec 2021 20:02


Originally Posted by henra (Post 11151171)
Very good point!
Typhoon is an excellent Airframe (especially A2A). It's supremely fast, powerful and agile. With AESA, Meteor and IRIS/ASRAAM a mighty Air Superiority platform that can sweep the airspace. On the other hand the Product Support and continued development is rather lackluster compared to F-35 or even Rafale. A2G Typhoon is still behind Tornado in many cpabilities and it is not VLO to compensate for this. There are no 'cool' additions exactly as you mentioned with Loyal wingman&Company. At the same time Typhoon and Rafale are amongst the very most expensive Fighter aircraft on the current market. Honestly, I also don't see big chances in any of the remaining competitions, being it Canada or Finland. And I can't even really blame them.

Im intrigued to know how Typhoon is still behind Tornado in air to surface capabilities?

Timelord 4th Dec 2021 20:31


Originally Posted by Foghorn Leghorn (Post 11151419)
Im intrigued to know how Typhoon is still behind Tornado in air to surface capabilities?

No back seat!

rattman 4th Dec 2021 21:08


Originally Posted by Petit-Lion (Post 11151415)
Can already kicked. Canada is buying second-hand Hornets from Australia "for parts".


Yes but 20-30 gripens would allow the can to be kicked even further down the road. The 25 ex RAAF hornets of which 7 are for parts gets you down <10 years, 20ish gripens might get you down the road for 10 + years and still be usable after they eventually select the F-35 which we all know they will have to at some stage

Bob Viking 5th Dec 2021 01:42

Rattman
 
Buying 20 Gripens is not a case of kicking the can down the road. It would effectively be stomping on the can and throwing it on the bin.

Firstly an interim bit of new aircraft would take up all the money that might otherwise be available to buy F35.

Secondly (and its the aspect that politicians never seem to appreciate fully) the RCAF simply couldnt provide the manning to do it.

If you are suggesting that Gripen work alongside the remaining Hornets (which I guess you are because 20 jets could not meet the RCAF taskings) then you would need two fleets of pilots/engineers etc. Unless something has drastically changed in Canada, that just isnt going to happen.

The purchase of the RAAF jets was to recognise the fact that they could augment the knackered fleet of RCAF jets without making two fleets. Even an interim Super Hornet purchase would have created two fleets.

Anyway, I may be wrong but with the competitors left in the process F35 is the inevitable choice. I just cannot wait to see the kicking that Justin will get in the press and maybe the polls.

BV

rattman 5th Dec 2021 02:02


Originally Posted by Bob Viking (Post 11151492)
Buying 20 Gripens is not a case of kicking the can down the road. It would effectively be stomping on the can and throwing it on the bin.

Never said it was good plan, its a political plan, you can get the headlines "Canada to by new non american fighter" most of the public wont even bother to read any further, even less will look at the details on what makes it a good or bad plans.

He will get his headlines and photo ops when the first plane is delivered, meanwhile the RCAF get more screwed

Bob Viking 5th Dec 2021 06:51

rattman
 
I love your blue-sky thinking but I think well agree to disagree on its likelihood.

Even Justin would struggle to put a positive spin on that plan.

BV

typerated 5th Dec 2021 07:05

So plus points about the Gripen:

Gripen serviceability will be better two conscripts and a screwdriver keep it flying F-35 not so much.
Its a Saab aircraft so designed to fly from austere places F-35 I imgine is more limited in places you would want to deploy to.
Gripen will be cheap to own, fly and upgrade F-35 will be on the other end of the spectrum
Canadas tankers have hose and drogue surely no air force would be stupid enough to buy airplanes their tankers cant refuel?? Oh :)
US units will be queuing up to do DACT with Canadian Gripens - - not so with F-35.
As most of the western world will fly F-35 if Canada buys Gripen it will bring something different to the mix when they deploy.
Gripen is not American - which my be a big plus for some politicians.

On the flip side LM use lots of $s to be persuasive with the right people - Saab dont

vascodegama 5th Dec 2021 07:32

TR The chosen RCAF tanker (MRTT) has boom and wing pods-pity we didnt think ahead!

typerated 5th Dec 2021 07:42

Thanks - Didn't know the tankers were due to be replaced too.


kimono1950 5th Dec 2021 14:31

The perfect plane for Canada is the Rafale F4, all others than the Rafale is just a wast of money.

Bob Viking 5th Dec 2021 15:58

Kimono
 
Might we infer from your sales pitch that you are French per chance?

BV

Foghorn Leghorn 5th Dec 2021 16:14


Originally Posted by kimono1950 (Post 11151711)
The perfect plane for Canada is the Rafale F4, all others than the Rafale is just a wast of money.

It turns out the Rafale isnt in the running, otherwise Im sure it would have been a huge success.

GeeRam 5th Dec 2021 16:19


Originally Posted by kimono1950 (Post 11151711)
The perfect plane for Canada is the Rafale F4, all others than the Rafale is just a wast of money.

So perfect in fact, that Dassault chose to withdraw from the competition at the end of 2018....

M609 5th Dec 2021 21:19


Originally Posted by typerated (Post 11151533)

On the flip side LM use lots of $s to be persuasive with the right people - Saab dont

You mean Saab dont until they are caught in the act, like the South Africa and Brazil deals? 😬

yes I know, BAE had som part in that mess

Davef68 5th Dec 2021 22:53

It will all come down to politicians trying to make it look like they are making a reasoned decision to buy the aircraft that was previously cancelled.

henra 6th Dec 2021 07:39


Originally Posted by Foghorn Leghorn (Post 11151419)
Im intrigued to know how Typhoon is still behind Tornado in air to surface capabilities?

No HARM/ALARM, no Kormoran/Sea Eagle. Currently the JDAM (GBU-38/54) is not yet fully implemented.

Foghorn Leghorn 6th Dec 2021 15:51


Originally Posted by henra (Post 11152022)
No HARM/ALARM, no Kormoran/Sea Eagle. Currently the JDAM (GBU-38/54) is not yet fully implemented.

I think we are talking nation specific here. ALARM had all but gone from GR4s inventory towards the end. Sea Eagle had not been in the inventory for over a decade by the end and GR4 never used JDAM. At the moment, Im still struggling to see how the UK Typhoon is behind Tornado GR4 (noting GR4 is no longer in service).

downsizer 6th Dec 2021 17:20

I suppose you could argue it has no PW3 or raptor pod?

About the only difference I can think of.


All times are GMT. The time now is 14:34.


Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.