PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Military Aviation (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation-57/)
-   -   RCAF Hornet replacement. (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/604606-rcaf-hornet-replacement.html)

Finningley Boy 2nd Sep 2019 08:54


Originally Posted by F-16GUY (Post 10325324)
It too have tanks...

https://theaviationist.com/wp-conten...s-jettison.jpg

Well the above does not have them any more, but those in the link below still have them....

Got pictures of the F-22 with drop tanks? - General F-22A Raptor forum

To be honest, the EE/BAC Lightning didn't have them, the mark 6 had overwing tanks, but they couldn't be carried as a matter of course.

FB

ORAC 3rd Aug 2020 07:14

https://www.defensenews.com/global/t...r-competition/

These three companies submitted bids for Canada’s fighter competition

WASHINGTON — The bids are in for Canada’s fighter competition, and three companies will go head-to-head for the chance to build 88 new jets.

The Canadian government on Friday confirmed that the field is down to two American entrants — Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and Boeing’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet — as well as Swedish aerospace manufacturer Saab’s Gripen E. All companies submitted proposals before the July 31 deadline.....

ORAC 25th Nov 2021 20:16

Oops….


ORAC 1st Dec 2021 22:19


Bob Viking 2nd Dec 2021 02:39

Oh (dear) Canada.
 
After all this time it comes down to two completely different aircraft. Both of which are single engined (please re-read the thread for why I bring that point up again).

As I have said before, you don’t include F35 in your competition unless you want fifth gen. So how can Gripen (even the NG model) ever compete?

After all these years Justin must be getting his spin doctors wound up into a proper frenzy to work out how to play this one. Is he just hoping that the world will forget that he cancelled the F35 purchase all those years ago? Lucky the media have a short memory I guess…

BV

Bob Viking 2nd Dec 2021 02:41

NFTC
 
On a separate, but related, note. Has anyone heard any rumblings about how Canada plan to replace or extend the NFTC programme?

They’re kind of running out of time on that as well.

BV

chopper2004 2nd Dec 2021 04:24

Interesting that the last two contenders are single engine anyhow am revisiting the remainers (lol) dedicated websites



Anyone seen this dedicated Gripen for Canada site



https://www.saab.com/markets/canada/gripen-for-canada



https://res.cloudinary.com/dkkd45ayz...background.jpg



Sub page



https://www.saab.com/markets/canada/...nada-by-canada



And quote



'To make these economic benefits a reality, Saab has assembled a dynamic roster of leading Canadian aerospace companies across multiple regions to offer the best solution for Canada’s future fighter to form the Gripen for Canada Team, including IMP Aerospace and Defence, CAE, Peraton Canada, and GE Aviation. Together, these industry innovators offer a genuine ‘Made in Canada’ solution for that will create long-term, highly-skilled Canadian jobs from coast to coast.'



Then



https://www.f35.com/f35/global-enterprise/canada.html



https://www.f35.com/content/dam/lock...0CanadaIP2.jpg






COuple of my thoughts....



Gripen has been in service for damn near 3 decades operating in the harshest Scandinavian environments successfully. Colder than polar bears rectum and similar to the Canadian harshness. And the ability to operate off main roads in Sweden is also a nice factor.



Then again the Swiss have picked the F-35A to replace their Hornets and Swiss are reknowned for operatng in harsh conditions and off mortorways/autobahns with HASs built into mountains. But ski season cuckoo clocks, fondue, chocolate laden alps probably is not way comparable to Canada.



Wonder how the Finn fighter competition is going to pan out....



Anyone know off hand when Ottawa will make a decision and will it before Santa kicks in?



Cheers






Foghorn Leghorn 2nd Dec 2021 14:31


Originally Posted by chopper2004 (Post 11150152)

Wonder how the Finn fighter competition is going to pan out....

Not a cat in hells chance the Typhoon will win the Finnish contest.

I’ll bet Canada also go with F35.

Commander Taco 3rd Dec 2021 03:23


I’ll bet Canada also go with F35.
…..if the current PM can be forced to actually make a decision, something he really dislikes doing. He much prefers making bold, but empty statements of “what this country will always stand for”. His words are wind.

typerated 3rd Dec 2021 03:51


Originally Posted by Foghorn Leghorn (Post 11150412)
Not a cat in hells chance the Typhoon will win the Finnish contest.
.

Price and lack of support for Typhoon?

Or just LM level of bribery is leagues above everyone else - allegedly




GeeRam 3rd Dec 2021 07:10


Originally Posted by typerated (Post 11150631)
Price and lack of support for Typhoon?

Or just LM level of bribery is leagues above everyone else - allegedly

Well, LM must have a big archive of reference material for the latter in an old filing cabinet marked 'F-104 sales and marketing'.......:E

Beamr 3rd Dec 2021 08:11


Originally Posted by typerated (Post 11150631)
Price and lack of support for Typhoon?

Or just LM level of bribery is leagues above everyone else - allegedly

I dont know FL's reasoning, but I would be very surprised if the choice would be Typhoon. It's much of what is provided besides the airframes that doesn't give much chance to Typhoon. My runner ups would be F35 and Gripen with Super Hornet as a black horse in the game. Then Typhoon and last Rafale. But hey, I'm not making the decisions and am not involved in the process. But while others provide growlers, globaleyes, loyal wingmen, already have a tech development center in Finland and opportunity for sharing the defense command chain (Saab), more investments in jobs and more likely viability up till 2060's (esp. F35), the Rafale and Typhoon can't be seen as ideal, unless others have c*cked up in their offers. But that is apparently a possibility so all the bets are open. However, the chance of quessing the winner is 20%, so it is more likely than winning in a lottery.
Then there's the politics, who plays with whom and how much and why doesn't play with the others and to where do the promised jobs appear to.

What comes to the Canadian tender, I'd surely like to know what dropped Boeing out of the game and eventually would it have any echo on the Finnish tender.

Davef68 3rd Dec 2021 08:39


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11150707)
What comes to the Canadian tender, I'd surely like to know what dropped Boeing out of the game and eventually would it have any echo on the Finnish tender.

They might deny it publicly, but I think Boeing is still a dirty word in the Canadian Govt after the A220 farago

Beamr 3rd Dec 2021 09:00


Originally Posted by Davef68 (Post 11150716)
They might deny it publicly, but I think Boeing is still a dirty word in the Canadian Govt after the A220 farago

Thanks, although I reckon there should be some tender related did-not-meet-criteria reason too...

Bob Viking 3rd Dec 2021 10:26

Beamr
 
Have you read the rest of the thread? The competition is literally down to F35 and Gripen. Everybody else has withdrawn. So it is not a 20% chance of guessing correctly anymore.

I would say the odds are massively in favour of F35 despite Justin’s dilemma.

If the RCAF end up with Gripen I can see an awful lot of disgruntled and disappointed Canadian pilots in the near future. Its not that Gripen isn’t a great jet. It’s just that I wouldn’t view it as a huge upgrade over Hornets.

BV

Beamr 3rd Dec 2021 10:38


Originally Posted by Bob Viking (Post 11150765)
Have you read the rest of the thread? The competition is literally down to F35 and Gripen. Everybody else has withdrawn. So it is not a 20% chance of guessing correctly anymore.



BV

BV, I have, and I was addressing the question regarding Finnish tender, as the question was raised by chopper2004, Foghorn Leghorn and typerated. I am aware that the Canadian tender has only two contestors left.

Bob Viking 3rd Dec 2021 11:12

Beamr
 
Roger. Back in my box.

BV

Foghorn Leghorn 3rd Dec 2021 12:21


Originally Posted by Bob Viking (Post 11150765)
If the RCAF end up with Gripen I can see an awful lot of disgruntled and disappointed Canadian pilots in the near future. Its not that Gripen isn’t a great jet. It’s just that I wouldn’t view it as a huge upgrade over Hornets.

BV

I agree, BV, I’d be astonished if F35 didn’t win. However, regarding Gripen not being a huge upgrade, those RCAF Hornets have been absolute heaps of crap for a long time now and they’re also classic models. Gripen with AESA would be quite a large leap forward; but I know what you mean when compared to a 5th gen aircraft.

rattman 3rd Dec 2021 19:21


Originally Posted by Foghorn Leghorn (Post 11150818)
I agree, BV, I’d be astonished if F35 didn’t win. However, regarding Gripen not being a huge upgrade, those RCAF Hornets have been absolute heaps of crap for a long time now and they’re also classic models. Gripen with AESA would be quite a large leap forward; but I know what you mean when compared to a 5th gen aircraft.

Maybe its only buy a small amount like 20 or so and allow themselves to kick the can down the street again for another couple of years

henra 4th Dec 2021 08:17


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11150707)
But while others provide growlers, globaleyes, loyal wingmen, already have a tech development center in Finland and opportunity for sharing the defense command chain (Saab), more investments in jobs and more likely viability up till 2060's (esp. F35), the Rafale and Typhoon can't be seen as ideal, unless others have c*cked up in their offers.

Very good point!
Typhoon is an excellent Airframe (especially A2A). It's supremely fast, powerful and agile. With AESA, Meteor and IRIS/ASRAAM a mighty Air Superiority platform that can sweep the airspace. On the other hand the Product Support and continued development is rather lackluster compared to F-35 or even Rafale. A2G Typhoon is still behind Tornado in many cpabilities and it is not VLO to compensate for this. There are no 'cool' additions exactly as you mentioned with Loyal wingman&Company. At the same time Typhoon and Rafale are amongst the very most expensive Fighter aircraft on the current market. Honestly, I also don't see big chances in any of the remaining competitions, being it Canada or Finland. And I can't even really blame them.


All times are GMT. The time now is 22:31.


Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.