Canadian cf-104 Starfighter team "1980's"
 

Please can anyone give me evidence that the “Canadian F-104team” 5 or 6 jets?
I seem to remember “Mildenhall circa 80’s” existed?
I thought they were called the “Red Indian’s”
There is stuff on line but no definitive proof of the name?
They were very good.
Spoke to some Canadians AF people at riat 2 days ago andobviously they were young
Pups. But they were unaware?

I remember the CF-104s at the Mildenhall Air Fetes in the 80s. There were 4, sometimes 5, and I'm pretty sure that at least at one point they were billed as the "Tiger Romeos".

A great display; very close formation, opposition pairs and an entry at low level from behind the crowd (this was pre-Ramstein, of course :( )which made everybody jump.

Edit: This thread says that the names changed over the years, possibly depending on which squadron of the Baden-Sollingen wing were providing the team at the time. Tiger Romeos were actually in the late 70s. Time whizzes by... like a Starfighter, I guess!

I'm pretty certain they were a 5 ship but it was a long time ago!
IIRC the Canadian Wing at Baden Sollingen had 3 Sqns. 439 (Tigers) and 2 others with an Indian and a Grizzly Bear on their crests. Would explain the changes in title- maybe the sqns took it in turns to provide the team?

I recall them doing a loop above the parental house near Leicester East / Stoughton airshow while I was on the flat roof of an extention. I think it was the same year a C5 Galaxy did a fly by.

They are watching and waiting.

Looking back at my logs I have them as a 4 ship and definitely called the Red Indians in the late 70's.

In fact I recall a CF-104 painted in full Red Indian colours at Mildenhall in 83 or 84

Slight thread drift. Never saw a Cannuk F104 display but in the early 70s the Belgian Slivers in F104Gs were up there with the best. Entered crowd rear, as everyone did in those days, at around 450+. Performed a few formation passes before a couple of opposition passes. As they crossed they were always in the turn and used either side of the runway for lateral separation. Tight display - with a 104! Interesting boys to talk to later. When the leader was posted, so I read, they dissolved the team.

104's opposition pair
 

At one of the Goodwood displays in the 70's there were a pair of 104's who's display consisted of appearing from 'nowhere' (in the haze) and crossing over the airfield in opposite directions very low and very fast. We were there with the 'very low and very slow' Turbs from Redhill . Goodwood is not the largest of airfields or had radar so the their opposite direction 'crossing' in a turn overhead was quite impressive considering their turning circle must have been 'substantial'.
Also memorable for me as one of the tied Turb formation having just completed a low turn (on the inside) to get an urgent 'up' signal from the leader which prevented my contact with an errant tree.

These not very good photos are of the 4-ship Canadian Armed Forces F104 Starfighter team that displayed at the Biggin Hill Air Fair in May 1979.
edit to add
I took these photos with a very basic camera, with a basic 35mm lens. I am sure there were only 4 displaying. The 'Scramble' airshow website only lists 3 registrations, but clearly there were at least 4



Attachment 2592

Attachment 2593

According to Dan Dempsey's superb book on Canadian display teams, The Red Indians, comprised five CF104s (4 + solo, although they appear to have fielded a nine aircraft team in 1971) from 421 (Red Indian) Squadron, RCAF, and based at CFB Baden-Soellingen, WG. The book also states that the team was in existence in 1970, 1971, 1973, 1977 and 1978. Having said that I seem to recall photographing a CF104 with a red fuselage and white fuselage marking as part of Baden's 50th anniversary celebration at Mildenhall in 1983 when the last three operational squadrons each painted an aircraft in squadron colours.

Remember seeing a Canadian five-ship in filthy weather at one of the Biggin Hill shows in the late 1970s. I have a couple of slides somewhere in storage with a loose gaggle of them all with the reheats lit disappearing into the murk.

The German Navy sent a pair to IAT at Greenham Common too around that time. One would fly past slowly dirtied up while the other went whizzing past at 0.9M or faster

There was definitely an all-red CF-104 from the Red Indian squadron in the early 1980s. Somewhere in my model stash I have a Esci boxing with those colours.

The West German Navy two-ship team was called the Vikings. I saw them at a St. Mawgan display in the mid/late-1980s. Absolutely superb they were.

Mildenhall Air Fete 1983
https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7474...65a91862_b.jpg
(Not my image)

The 3 squadrons at Baden Soellingen were 421 (Indians), 439 (Tigers) and 441 (Foxes).

Teams were, as I recall, mostly 5 aircraft.

The names of the demonstration teams depended on which squadron was providing the team.

The Operational Training Unit at CFB Cold Lake in Alberta also had a 5 aircraft team, the Deadeye Zips, who displayed throughout Canada and the northern USA.

I was fortunate enough to be in that team in 1976. Enormous fun. We mostly arrived as a 5-ship, few passes as such, then split off as a 4-ship and a singleton.

1976 - No.417 CEPE, RCAF Uplands, Ont, 'Deadeye Zips' CF104 Capt Ron Doyle, Capt Dave Burroughs and Capt John Bagshaw

Perhaps it was 75? Our team was John David lead, me 2, Dave Bligh 3, Frank Thorne 4 and Dave Leach RAAF 5 and solo.

Many thanks to all. I can now tell my mate, we were both right

Mildenhall, 1982 - note the one without tip-tanks.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4326/...0e0aacf8_c.jpg

Nice pic. IIRC, the Zipper had more fuel in the tip-tanks than internally....

1975:'Starfighters', Capt John David, Flt Lt Roger Wholey (RAF) Capt Dave Bligh, Capt Frank Thorne and Flt Lt Dave Leach (RAAF)

I remember them at an RAF Greenham Common RIAT as a 5 ship. 4 in formation aerobatics along the crowd line engaging the crowds full attention whilst the 5th blasted through from behind the crowd; fast and low creating a shock effect!

It was a good display. :D :ok:

The solo aircraft had no externals. I am sure at some point the 5 ship were called the starfighters.

See Post 20

I knew you had a tour on Starfighters Mr Wholigan but a display pilot, wow ! Are there any interesting tales that can be told in public ?

Ahhhhh that bit about the solo aircraft not having tip tanks I was unaware of, but having looked at my photos from 1979, I can just make out that the pic of a solo F104 that I have is without tip tanks, which confirms it was a 5 ship display not 4 as I previously believed.

What a mine of useful information PPRuNe is.

Just for interest, all 5 of our aircraft were clean, no tanks.

Vampire dave, not sure where the report at post 20 came from, but I can assure you the callsign of that team was Deadeye Zips, not Starfighters.

Wholigan
 

No tips??

Must have been a very short display!!

Absolutely not Bomber old mate. A clean 104 actually made fuel instead of using it. 😄

57mm - internal fuel was about 5800 lbs, with tip tanks fuel was about 8000 lbs and with tips and underwings it was about 10500 lbs. Tips and underwings was a pig to fly though.

As a teenager (about 1981) I was on a family holiday in Alsace, France when we stopped at one of the large barge locks on the Rhein south of Karlsruhe.

The balmy summers afternoon peace was broken by a strange noise approaching from the north.

A few seconds later a large formation of 4 diamonds of Canadian F104s (16 aircraft) and a single diamond of T33s (4 aircraft) appeared at about 1500 ft heading south towards Baden-Soellingen which was a few miles south of us.

A wonderful sight and a wonderful noise!

I am guessing it was maybe Families Day at Soellingen.

I remember a 104 and a Phantom trying to get on each others tail at altitude for several minutes near Laarbruch in the 80's. Neither had a terrific turning performance and the Phantom eventually broke off and made a run for it.

I also remember one of our Jags diverting to Baden–Soellingen after a wire strike. We had to change the No.1 engine and the 104 guys were amazed when I declined the offer of chains for the ground run. They didn't realise how little thrust the Adour had compared to the J79.

Wholigan: A Tradition of Excellence: Canada's Airshow Team Heritage Daniel D V Dempsey High Flight Enterprises 2002
417 TAC(F) Training Squadron, CFB Cold Lake, Alberta, CF104
1968 Starfighters (4 a/c)
1969 Starfighters (4 a/c)
1970 Starfighters (4+2)
1971 Starfighters (4+1)
1972 Deadeye Whiskeys (4+1)
1973 Starfighters (4+1)
1974 Deadeye Blacks (4+1)
1975 Starfighters (4+1) Team Image on P.415)
1976 Deadeye Zips (3)
1977 Deadeye Zips / Alberta Arrows (4)
1978 Deadeye Blues (4+1)
1979 Deadeye Zips (4)
1980 Deadeye Zips (4)
1981 No team
1982 Deadeye Zips (2+1)
1983 Closeout Team (4)

Don't shoot the messenger?

Quite right- messenger is safe from shooting. Methinks Dan doesn't quite remember it as well as the person using the callsign for the year. 😄😄

Just to clarify for me if you would be so kind, was it the combination of both tip and underwing that was the issue or just the addition of the underwing tanks that caused the creation of the pork condition?


Thanks. :)

"Ladies and Gentlemen, the Sound of Freedom...."

Biggles78.

Very heavy, lots of interference, tiny wing. I'll be honest, we never flew the aircraft with just underwings but, after all this time, I can't remember if it was even a cleared configuration.

A lot of people who had back seat rides as "guests" came away thinking the 104 was horrible to fly. That was because if you flew the 2 sticker as part of a formation, it needed 4 tanks to have the fuel to complete the normal single stick mission. Consequently it gave the wrong impression about the aircraft.

Slightly off topic, but me thinks this 104 display gimmick was the craziest of them all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyBDEG9dg-Q

Yep. He eventually died!!!

Everyone does. I assume he died conducting that manoeuvre? Indeed looks pretty cool, but no much room for error...

He died in 1990 in a car crash.....