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Originally Posted by Dr Jekyll
(Post 9802263)
Although it was returned to flight in civilian hands many years before the Vulcan.
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I too would be very sad if the Sea Vixen doesn't get to fly again but for very different reasons than BEagle's. One of the key people responsible for securing that aircraft for display flying was a very old friend of mine who was also ultimately responsible for inspiring me to becoming a pilot, albeit only as a PPL. The last time I spoke to him he was really excited about displaying the Vixen at the forthcoming Farnborough show. Sadly he died of heart disease before he was able to do so. I have seen it displayed many times and it has always reminded me of the great aerial and ground adventures we shared together over many years.
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It would indeed be a sad day if the Sea Vixen cannot fly again. When I was a lad I had a Matchbox (other models are available) model which I kept with me through many changes of address. Right from the start I thought that it was one of the sleekest aircraft I had ever seen. sadly the model/toy was lost around 1990.
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Although I'm sure I'd seen it before, my first recollection of seeing a Sea Vixen was at Finningley in 1969, it was a quite low and aggressive performance culminating in fast climb into a quite high cloud base, I wasn't entirely sure it was going to disappear into it, but it did!:ok:
I certainly hope the Sea Vixen gets into the air again!:ok: FB:) |
Just seen the video and thought it strange that the pilot did not opt for an arrested landing into a cable as that would have minimised the ground slide, and minimised the risk of loss of directional control and going onto the bundu at high speed. It would I suspect have been the SOP for a gear-up landing when the Vixen was in FAA service.. Does anyone know it this assumption is correct or not?
MB |
thought it strange that the pilot did not opt for an arrested landing into a cable |
Yeovilton had arrester gear during the 1960s and 1970s when operating Sea Vixens and Phantoms. But it has probably been removed since then.
If you go to the Seavixen.org website you can read the Pilots Notes and Flight Reference Cards. Arrested landings were not permitted with gear up. |
Thanks for that info about NO arrests Gear up (with/without drop tanks?). Anyhoo Google Earth photo from 15 Aug 2016 shows arrestor gear on three runways.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...m.jpg~original |
I suspect the Vixen's hook is also hydraulically operated, so I presume like the gear it was also stuck in the raised position.
I'm fairly sure Yeovilton has barriers installed, but no cable/RHAGs. |
Flip cards say jettison drop tanks unless they are empty. But I suspect that the jettison facility in not cleared for use now.
Both the landing gear and the hook are powered by the green hydraulic system. Emergency power for both is provided by the red system. But as the use of arrester gear with landing gear up is not permitted, all of this is rather academic. Perhaps the most curious aspect of this incident is the fact that the Ram Air Turbine (RAT) was deployed. This powers only the blue system, which operates the flying controls. So the use of the RAT could not do anything to help get the gear down. |
Appypollylogies - in haste did not zoom GoogieEarth to see NO arrestor gear installed on any runway - just old bits of concrete for previous installations.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...M.jpg~original |
I had the pleasure of watching Beags flight in a Sea Vixen beating up Farnborough in 66 and have the cine to prove it. HMS Hermes airgroup in the good old days!
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Yes indeed - and thanks so much for the DVD copy! All I remember was lots of G, high IAS and AoB which I could just about make out by peering past the pilot at the instrument panel. I greyed out several times as I didn't have an anti-G suit and chundered copiously into a honk bag on the way back - but it was an amaxing experience, especially as Nigel took the formation back via another display for the benefit of Hermes (?) in harbour.
The variety of RN / RAF aircraft in those few minutes of ciné film makes me realise just how much we've lost since then. I see that the VC10 on static was one of the first I flew many years later on my OCU course in 1984 - and it was still going strong as a VC10C1K when I flew it for the last time in 2002! Incidentally, there's a short piece from BBC Points West about the 'Vixen on the Navy Wings website. |
Latest update from Navy Wings:
As you will be aware the Sea Vixen is still being stripped to assess the damage caused by the wheels up landing at RNAS Yeovilton on the 27 May 2017. Initial indications are that the repairs to the airframe will be extensive and the feeling is that they could take a minimum of 2 years to complete. However, depending on what other damage is found, this figure may be conservative and the rebuild could be longer, with the need to ensure all the systems are in A1 condition for further flight. The engineering team has now removed both engines along with the auxiliary gear box, which was extensively damaged in the wheels up landing. What has come to light is the cause of the hydraulic failure; the Green pump was seized and the quill drive shaft had fractured at its design weak point. The Red system is still under investigation as to why it failed to produce pressure when required, as visibly the pump and quill drive shaft appear to be serviceable. The intention is to have the Green and Red pumps independently checked for the cause of the failures. Whatever the outcome of the damage assessment unfortunately it is becoming clearer that the recovery programme could be extensive. https://www.navywings.org.uk/support...n-appeal-2017/ |
I accept this will be no easy but two years to repair comes as a shock!
FB |
It gets worse... From Navy Wings...
Charity Appeals for White Knight Following the emergency landing of Sea Vixen G-CVIX XP924 at RNAS Yeovilton on 27 May 17, Navy Wings is urgently seeking a ‘white knight’ sponsor to save the aircraft and restore this unique and nationally important naval heritage fighter to full flying condition. Unfortunately the structural damage to the airframe is more serious than first thought. This includes cracks on both tail booms, warping of the main bulk heads in the engine compartment and major damage to the gear box. The important factor here was speed of landing. The Sea Vixen suffered a major hydraulic failure of both systems and the pilot, Commander Simon Hargreaves was unable to lower the flaps along with the under-carriage. This necessitated a high speed, low angle run on and the energy transferred itself through the airframe. Work by Assessors estimate that it could take between 3-4 years and cost £2-3M to get her flying again. A white knight is needed in the next month who would be prepared to come to the rescue and under-write these costs and save the last flying Sea Vixen in the world, recognising her uniqueness and value to the Nation’s naval aviation heritage. #whiteknight #navywingsuk navywings.org.uk |
That sounds a bit as though things are desperate. Hope someone signs up
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Awful news and I really feel for the whole Sea Vixen team... everything crossed that someone comes forward - in the grand scheme of things it's not a HUGE sum of money, but still a lot to find in a short space of time.
Such a stunning jet to watch flying... :( |
Very sad news, especially following such an elegant no-gear landing.
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I am a little bit confused here. The Sea Vixen is a registered civilian aircraft (G-CVIX) and is not owned by the Royal Navy. It therefore must have been insured by a civilian insurance company and not by the MOD.
Surely the insurers have a duty to restore the aircraft to its original state, reach a settlement with the owners or scrap it and allow the owners to buy back the wreckage? (I have owned, operated and insured several civilian aircraft in my time). |
can't see that you would be able to insure an aircraft like that to cover repairs ! premium would be millions ! i suspect the cover is for 3rd party liability only ! lets hope someone will put some money in to keep her going !
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Maybe they went for 'Third Party Only' instead of 'Fully Comprehensive' to save money!:confused:
Ooops! Didn't see post#101. |
While it is always to sad to see a sole flyer retire, it does bring up the questions of when is it a good time to retire an airframe? Is the 2-3 million the best way to preserve FAA heritage? Are other projects more feasible? Please no pitchforks and I hate to be a wet blanket- I love to see flyers as much as anyone- but sometimes a well deserved retirement is...well deserved. If someone steps up- fantastic, and I do wish all concerned the very best.
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bring back the beautiful Seahawk....hat, coat
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I guess one (slightly) positive is there are plenty of preserved Vixens around to get some airframe and other parts from, Notwithstanding of course that most of them will not have flown for some 45 years and corrosion etc will of course have taken it's toll and pumps, gearboxes etc will need extensive overhauls. However, some of the later frames operated by FR Aviation and RAE Llanbedr last flew only some 25 years ago.
XS590 has been preserved at Yeovilton and stored undercover most of the time too and I believe is also the last built Sea Vixen too. Potential boom donor maybe, swapping with the now cracked ones off XP924? All subject to being sound structurally and corrosion wise of course. But then there is the money.......given their long association with the Sea Vixen I would love to see my old company FR Aviation (now Cobham) donating some cash and possibly resources given their large airframe and component overhaul business. Might be some good PR for them.... |
Fingers crossed someone comes forward to help them out - it's a big ask though.
Other airframes wise, even if other owners were prepared to have their pride & joys cannabilised, there must be other implications to consider such as flying hours/faitgue on said components (would the CAA allow this?) plus someone else has said that these aircraft were built in the analogue age and many donor components just might not fit! I think brand newly built replacement parts is probbaly the only way to go - I'm certainly no expert, so hopefully someone more knowledgeable will be along soon to comment... Everything crossed at this end for 'Foxy' though... |
Whatever all the complexities of ownership and maintenance are that , to my amateur, eye looks a terrific piece of flying with no flaps so a fast approach speed and keeping it perfectly straight and level once its one the ground
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Originally Posted by NickB
(Post 9817190)
Other airframes wise, even if other owners were prepared to have their pride & joys cannabilised, there must be other implications to consider such as flying hours/faitgue on said components (would the CAA allow this?) plus someone else has said that these aircraft were built in the analogue age and many donor components just might not fit!
With respect to other owners having their "price and joy" cannibalized....if they are never going to fly again and only museum exhibits, why wouldn't another owner want to assist - particularly the FAA Museum who surely would have a vested interest in the RN having a flying frame? Plus any internal component, ie gearbox will not really matter either as it will never, ever be functionally used again on the donor frame? |
Is anyone out there able to shed a bit more light on the vagaries of the Sea Vixen's hydraulic system? Is it similar to the other twin-Avon types, i.e. Lightning/PR9 where each engine drives a pair of pumps; 2 of these being effectively paralleled to provide a utilities/services supply with the other 2 pumps each supplying their own 'controls' supply. This gave redundancy at almost every level.
The PR9 undercarriage emergency lowering was via a hand-pump, whereas the Lightning used one of the 2 'controls' systems to provide the necessary pressure. The report makes mention of Green and Red system pumps; one of which seized but the other failed to provide any output. Do these pumps both provide pressure to the utilities/services system?? |
Sea Vixen Mk.2 Pilot Notes Hydraulic System PDF 2.5Mb:
https://www.seavixen.org/images/docu...Hydraulics.pdf |
Hi SpazSinbad
Thanks for that - very quick service! The Vixen's hyd system looks a tad more complex than both the Lightning & PR9. It would appear that the Red and Green systems are completely independent apart from that rather involved common reservoir! |
The latest update on the navy wings website states that they have been unable to find a white knight to underwrite the repairs, so the future is not looking good. But it has only been a few weeks since the accident, so hopefully they will keep looking and eventually find the money.
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I wonder when we will find out just what caused the accident.:confused:
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Another one gone.... Strikemaster destroyed in the US
BAC Strikemaster Mk80 crashed and destroyed in Las Vegas yesterday. Pilot ok, apparently, thank goodness.
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=196868 Pilot survives vintage military jet crash in Nevada desert Probably one of those operated by Blue Air Training - https://www.blueairtraining.com/#slides |
Anybody have an update on the Vixen?
Have they found the cause of why two hydraulic systems failed? Or was it something simple like electrical failure. |
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Originally Posted by Compass Call
(Post 10078135)
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