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-   -   Military housing fiasco (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/593910-military-housing-fiasco.html)

Melchett01 25th Apr 2017 22:27


Originally Posted by Jimlad1 (Post 9752179)
But in the eyes of some, all CS are inherently useless/incompetent/malevolent while all Mil are blameless/put upon and have no ability to shape or influence policy.

Jimlad,

I've seen some pretty bizarre decisions over the years from senior officers, so the military really isn't in a position to throw too many stones. But equally, since getting more HQ and Staff appointments in recent years I have noticed a trend that where financial and contractual decisions are being made, whilst there will likely be military staff input, many decisions are predicated on a Finance-type's spreadsheet in J8 being made to balance with little regard for whether the decision makes practical sense.

Jimlad1 26th Apr 2017 07:22


Originally Posted by Melchett01 (Post 9752374)
Jimlad,

I've seen some pretty bizarre decisions over the years from senior officers, so the military really isn't in a position to throw too many stones. But equally, since getting more HQ and Staff appointments in recent years I have noticed a trend that where financial and contractual decisions are being made, whilst there will likely be military staff input, many decisions are predicated on a Finance-type's spreadsheet in J8 being made to balance with little regard for whether the decision makes practical sense.

Agree, but equally the J8 types are only making decisions based on the funding that they've got to last an entire year, and that what may seem an annoying issue locally (and god knows I've experienced this a lot) may actually be essential if cash is to be available in the next quarter to support other activities on unit/sqn/base etc. Perhaps the problem is more about being able to communicate 'why computer says no' in an effort to show the bigger picture?

The question is often who makes these financial decisions that result in this budget - and there are plenty of mil and civ in those chains. What frustrates me is the deliberate attempt in some quarters to blame the CS and absolve the mil of any guilt, and pretend that the mil is powerless to resolve this. We're one united team, and the sooner we all play like a team, rather than trying to blame a bit of it, the better we will do.

beardy 26th Apr 2017 07:38


We're one united team, and the sooner we all play like a team, rather than trying to blame a bit of it, the better we will do.


So you admit that you are not playing like a team, despite being united? And which bit of the team is letting the rest down? Could that have been 'James Hopkins the former Army man' named in the article.

Pontius Navigator 26th Apr 2017 07:54

Melchett, the 1st/2nd class nonsense is not new nor only UK.

The Italians limit hotac at 4* regardless of cost or host convenience. They could not join us in a cheaper 5* Hilton and hosts had to arrange extra transport too.

Jimlad1 26th Apr 2017 08:15


Originally Posted by beardy (Post 9752672)
So you admit that you are not playing like a team, despite being united? And which bit of the team is letting the rest down? Could that have been 'James Hopkins the former Army man' named in the article.

The UK defence establishment is not a team. It is a collection of private empires, power bases and localised cliques that are suspicious of outsiders, dislike change and dislike it even more when their sacred cows are questioned. Just look at the way the army capbadges brief against each other, the services brief against each other and everyone blames someone else (usually civil service or contractors) for whatever woe is out there. Its a not a team, its a collection of loosley warring tribes who make and break alliances to further their own self interest as they see fit.

Wensleydale 26th Apr 2017 09:20


The Italians limit hotac at 4* regardless of cost or host convenience. They could not join us in a cheaper 5* Hilton and hosts had to arrange extra transport too.

Not a new phenomenon. Back in the 1980s, I was flying with a multinational NATO crew that deployed from Germany to the UK. The NATO unit had declared RAF messes to be below their acceptable standard (too expensive; no en-suite; prohibitive dress rules etc) and so as soon as they landed then they headed off for the down town hotel - leaving me behind because the RAF station refused to sign my F95. I was left for two weeks of an exercise alone in the Mess with no transport and very little company, and missing the briefs/debriefs that went on at the Hotel.


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