MB, I think more self-righteous pprunere by those denied the medal through the chosen date. If the Arctic Star can be back dated there is only one logical reason the LS can't be - cost.

Not just the cost of the medal but the mass of administration handling the requests. The Veterans' badge was relatively easy - check records, issue badge*, LS would need far more effort.

*I tried to have my VB 're done with a clutch pin. The jeweller said it was so cheap she could not do it as the badge would melt. Medals are rather more expensive.

Some are. I think it was Beagle who commented on another thread that if you unscrewed the mount on the 2002 QGJM and heated it up you could pour the chocolate out of it! Maybe a slight exaggeration, but that was a really cheap and nasty medal. So much so that shortly after it came out a repro version came out which sold for more than an original!

Shouldn't the Duke of Edinburgh also be awarded the Army and RAF LS&GC medals as well as he has been a Colonel of various regiments since 1953 and MRAF since the same year.

N4, with rather a lot of bars.

According to the article in the link, he had 6 bars to his RN LS&GC for 75 years service.

The Queen "only" had 5 bars on each of her medals

There is an official batting order for receipt of these - in the RAF anyway. Senior Leadership Team get theirs first, followed by those in public facing roles, with everybody else being done alphabetically by Branch. They reckon they will start to send 100 names per week to the Medal Office and it should take 18 months to complete.

No cross to bear here, I was trying to make Banaboy feel better.

But no other industry I know of awards anything for 15 years service, personally I feel the only reason it has been brought out is as a cheap retention tool to try and assist in stemming the flow of experienced personnel out of the services, as the other methods do not appear to be working as much as they had hoped for, after all, what does it cost, a couple of pence to make?
Cheap at twice the price if it aids retention.

I tell a lie

That's probably worth more than the medal costs!

Afghanistan... Iraq.. Libya.... ;)


.

And don't McDonalds staff get stars on their name badges to reflect their service?

Can any ex-Navs confirm this.........?

Well somebody has to fry the chips for the pilots' shoulders.

At a tangent, I tracked The Gazette for Sir John McColl's recent K StJ.

Appointed Jersey's Lt Gov in September 2011.
Becomes Patron of St John Ambulance in Jersey [as one would expect]
Appointed Commander (Brother) April 2012
Appointed Knight August 2016

No disrespect, Sir, but you must be bloody good at tying bandages! Talk about a 'cascade' of awards for 'being there'.

Am I moody about not getting my LS&GC? Just a bit, to be honest, when I look at that.

I get 9 weeks extra paid leave when I retire ...

I got 4 weeks when leaving the Services, that just makes sense, if anyone was going to cause mayhem in their last days service, they have a period where they are still under military rule after they have gone where they could be disciplined.

I know someone who in a none military service was on his last day and was told that he wouldn't be allowed to leave until he cleared his desk of all outstanding paperwork, he did, he shredded the lot and walked out at 5 pm into retirement.

charliegolf, I have tried to reply to your query about a lost medal, but your inbox is full. I might as well post it on here as it may well be of interest to others.

The address to write to when requesting a replacement for a lost/stolen medal is

MOD Medal office
Innsworth House
Imjin Barracks
Innsworth
Gloucester
GL3 1HW

This is the address for all medal queries, including initial claims. Some years ago I made a successful claim for a medal which my late father had never been issued with, but they will not replace claims for lost family medals once the recipient is deceased. It's worth pointing out that the service is not free, and the sums involved are not trivial, over £50 for a replacement GSM as I recall, although of course there is no charge for an initial issue.

GSM (Mali)
 

Just wondering if any aircrew qualify for the Op NEWCOMBE (Mali) GSM 2008. I know that absolutely NONE of the Sentinel aircrew qualify although many did op missions over Mali. They didn't qualify on days in Th as supporting Op HERRICK at the same time and dets were short and sweet.
I'm assuming the criteria was written by Navy types as I believe that you were ok if you were a sailor onboard a ship at 20N 10W for 45 days.

TT

Nutty
My grateful civilian employer presented me with a clock after 10 years service!

I got an all expenses paid 3 month holiday. Sun, sand and indirect fire!

presentation clock?
 

After twenty years I did not get a clock but they did take my watch away

FTRS ?
 

Yet another scheme that FTRS who have rejoined after long and industrious careers won't benefit from pity that acculative service couldn't be used to qualify.

I had a little think about this LS medal!:rolleyes: Two other points strike me: It is, by definition, a recognition of previous service. Strange then, that it will only be awarded to a tiny fraction of those who have actually done that service.:oh: And, I still can't understand the cut-off date? Surely this needs sorting-out and backdating 70 years, or so?:D

OAP

OAP - but at what cost? Defence budget spent on 'bling' can't be spent elsewhere & if the intention is to acknowledge those still in productive service & perhaps make them feel better about that service, even to the point of not leaving or signing on, then that might be considered money well spent. Dishing out medals to retired folk? Where's the 'return' for that?

A line was 'drawn in the sand' as to qualification, presumably to maximise the benefit to the MOD whilst minimising the expense & as with any line some people will be on the wrong side & unhappy, but you'll never please everybody - even giving medals to everybody alive whose ever served 15 years wouldn't do that judging by some of the opinions expressed here.

All 'Devil's advocacy' of course rather than personal opinion.

Ken
If the issue of a LSGC is not backdated due to cost then one can only look at the precedent of the award of the Arctic Medal and GSM for the Canal Zone together with the Bomber Command bar (a travesty). They were campaigned for over 70 years and in conclusion awarded to all ranks.
The surviving members of the Officer Corps, past and present with 15 years service would probably not require an extra "print run" of LSGCs which exceeds the 10 thousand odd Afghan medals awarded. Maybe TTN has a view.

Ken S
If you consider your first paragraph, there is no point in medals, why would they introduce any? I disagree with your second para because, anyone who does not wish to have their medal can ignore it.:hmm: Also, the process of medal qualification has long been officially upheld as a fair process that attempts to reflect merit. Where ommisions or errors in qualification criteria are recognised, ammendments have been made to the criteria. I suggest that the present 2014 in-service onwards cut-off date is a serious error. Any other reason would imply that the long service of officers who left before that date did not deserve the award!:oh:

OAP

Those who decry medals seem to be those who miss out on the qualification, but I do understand the sensitivities of the cut-off date. I've worn each and every medal that I have been awarded with pride. The UK is honourably strict with medal criteria so I think that a medal indicating 15 (or more) years' service is a small recognition from the Sovereign that does mean a lot to the individual. As mentioned before, I've accumulated a few Op medals and a foreign one over the last 20-odd years so perhaps it is a bit lost on me, however the opportunities for me to wear medals except at, say, Remembrance Day, are vanishingly few.

This is a very positive move, long overdue and issued with equanimity.

Whenurhappy
You are spot-on to say "the sensitivities of the cut-off date". Usually, as you will know, medals for Ops also have strict other criteria for qualification but, in this case, the LS medal award hinges purely on the worthy merit of time served. Unfortunately, whatever the intent, the ridiculous imposition of an in the service cut-off date so recent has made the award a laughing-stock.:mad: Ridiculous

OAP

Well as someone who won't be entitled no matter how far back they backdate it (only 12 years reckonable service) I suppose I can be neutral. Personally I think that any surviving officer who meets the length of service criteria should be able to apply no matter how long ago his or her service. Shame I won't be getting one to sit beside my lonely GSM!

TTN,

I actually agree with you. After nearly 28 years service I retired completely bare chested. Two wars during my shift - Falklands and GW 1 - and I was a Whitehall warrior for both, so no opportunity to earn bling. I don't care personally, except, as I finally depart the fix, it would be nice to leave my lad with a meaningful memento of my military service, rather than a veteran's badge, which has never come out of it's box! (I have my Dad's gongs, which I value).

Well said TTN, and I agree. Having messed this up, in spades, the date of retirement limitation should be removed.:D

OAP

There are always cut off points for medals, and people will always find a reason to be grumpy about this. The issue is that the MOD is perenially stretched for cash, and the cost of minting and more importantly hiring enough staff to handle the backlog of claims and ascertain eligibility is a not insignificant amount of cash.

If the lack of the medal annoys people that much then buy one privately - no one will stop you. The best way to look at it is some you win, some you loose, but its probably not worth getting too grumpy about. Enjoy the cash saved by not having to get it remounted!

Aha Jimlad. Great to read your blind support of the status quo, as usual.:rolleyes:
If the UKGov/MOD is that strapped for cash, I suggest that they review a damn sight more before curtailing the criteria for awards and medals due to cost! Now, they could review the eligibility for free issue but, to go and define the merit of the award as limited by such a recent in-service date is an administrative contrivance that devalues the award itself to worthlessness and ridicule.:oh: Is that the intention of this move?

OAP

I'm not blindly supporting the status quo. I have a good understanding of the enormous pressure Innsworth found itself under with TELIC and HERRICK to ascertain eligibility and process requests- and this for two fairly small operations with good records still in place to process them.

To open the floodgates of every single person who has served 15 years or more and the inevitable legal challenges that will come from Rankers denied the award previously, will place an incredible strain on a very small organisation and cause a huge bottleneck that could last for many many years while this is sorted out.

Its not getting ridicule except from people who seem peeved that they've not gotten it. Everywhere else seems to be a resounding 'meh' at worst, or 'oh thats nice'. Ultimately all medals have a start date criteria, someone will always dip in, and others will not get one - if you want one that badly then buy one, otherwise just accept that on this occasion you've been unlucky and move on - there are more important things in life to worry about.

Ha! That is just so much sour grapes from you Jimlad. I doubt that you have anything directly to do with this subject but, your views here just regurgitate some of the same weak arguments used to delay other serious medal mistakes, such as the Bomber Command bar, ohh... too expensive...too difficult...it will take far too long, and seem to imply that the award is insignificant!:= Well, it cannot be insignificant because The Queen has seen fit to recognise long service with the award. However, I doubt that implications of the cut-off date were made known to her.:oh: So, here we are, an important correction of UK military award criteria tuned into a cake and arse party!:mad:

OAP

I'll probably buy a replica one, to pass on to my son. He won't care about the award criteria, I'm sure.

Yes, and you deserve it with 30 years service MPN!:ok: Or do we? The official criteria have been laid down to EXCLUDE those who retired before 2014 so, the award is invalid, even if you purchase it.:ouch: We have been given the finger by someone!

OAP

I understand how there are some very good reasons why opening the doors to prior service would be extremely difficult to do, and that unfortunately whenever you set a date for a medal, some people will miss out. No one is ever completely happy when medal criteria are set, but its important to understand that it is not a conspiracy, or a desire to insult a group of veterans.

The only solution to this is to offer an NDM (which I sense there is zero support for among the military hierachy for many good reasons), which would be awarded on completion of basic training, so that then everyone has one. Otherwise people will constantly argue over the criteria and some will always fall short.

The route to buying one is open to all, and there is nothing to stop you doing that. I do feel that the petty bitterness, and desperate desire to be seen as a victim of exclusion by some here is sad to observe.

On the contrary Jimlad, the pettiness is entirely within the mean spirited effective date criteria of this long service award. You seem unable to grasp the problem, that having finally decided to officially recognise long service in the Officer ranks, the imposition of an absurd "still in service" start date, with virtually no applicability to retired personnel, is a slap in the face for almost all those retired personnel. Few argue with the time served criteria, that is the basis of the long service. But, the effective prohibition of award to all who have retired but would otherwise qualify is mean and devisive. AFAIK, this is the only situation where being retired is effectively a limitation on the qualification for claiming a medal where one meets all other criteria.:=
I for one find your condescending tone and aloof attitude to this subject as sad to observe.

OAP

I never agreed with or understood why Officers were not eligible for the LS & GC Medal, so am pleased to hear that they now are. After all, 15 years of service is 15 years of service irrespective of rank.

I am not pleased with the fact an arbitrary qualification date of 2014 has been set, and that years of loyalty will continue to go unrewarded for many, including my dear old Dad who gave 37 years of his life to Commissioned service. I would have liked to have seen him awarded the medal and Bar retrospectively. We always seem to do things half-assed.

Some people see pettiness, I see realism. If we open qualifying up to anyone, we open the floodgates to hundreds of thousands of potential claimants, with an enormous amount of work required to identify their eligibility. We further face prospects of lawsuits from those who feel they are now entitled to one retrospectively, but didnt get one.

To award it retrospectively would be an incredibly difficult thing to do (and thats based on lots of discussions with those who have a very good understanding of what that would have entailed had that been done) and been a nightmare to administer.

Far easier to make it a simple cut off date, with enough notice that those still serving know whether to stay on or not (there was a roughly 18 month notice period I recall), than go down a complex road that would satisfy few, cost an inordinate amount and still lead to OUTRAGE stories in the Daily Mail when the overwhelmed medals office took years to process Uncle Ernies paperwork due to the weight of applications.

Jimlad, you have said your (possibly the party line) piece and are not taking this subject forward.:zzz:
As this forum is unofficial and, you maintain a private identity (as I do), please stop trying to present the "official view".:= Thanks

OAP

Avtur
Well said. AFAIK, that should be the medal with two bars!:ok:

OAP

A good sign that you know an argument is being lost, is when the other side start shouting "SHUT UP I DONT WANT TO HEAR YOU".
OAP - I'm putting my views across, because I think the criteria is fair, the reasons for not backdating eminently sensible, and because I appreciate that its incredibly difficult to do back dated awards without overwhelming the system.

I'm sorry if you want me to stop posting now because my perspective of this doesnt align with your own, but thats the beauty of free speech - there are always two sides to every argument, and I will continue to make my views on this clear.