Of course it is their responsibility.

That is true of everybody who has ever or will ever land with the gear up.
Everybody who transmits on the wrong frequency.
Everybody who lands at the wrong airfield, wrong runway or wrong ship.

It has all happened many times and it will happen many times more.

Thankfully, sometimes all that results is a funny video involving toilets.
Sometimes people get injured or die.

Even the best pilots with the best airmanship have a bad day, and unless you have never ever made a mistake with potentially disastrous consequences, then you should really get off your high horse on Pprune about it.

Personally I have never blown over a toilet, but I have had a few moments in my career where I have dodged a bullet more by luck than judgement.

Can you say this has not been the case with your flying?

Regardless of the loo incident, as a parent with our eldest son taking part that weekend I'd like to thank all the service personnel involved in organising and running the event.

It's real character building stuff for the young ones and all the effort put in is much appreciated by the competitors and parents :ok::D:D

Yes, pilots make mistakes - under pressure, in poor weather, dealing with an emergency, in an operational environment or a highly congested area - but a simple task in the middle of Dartmoor on a nice day? It is just poor airmanship and frankly inexcusable (although I'm sure you'll try).

If you take a little while to actually investigate, I suspect you will find the opposite is in fact more often the case.
Low arousal causes a lot of errors, not high arousal.

Have you never made a mistake?
Ever?

Something I have noticed throughout my career is that the sanctimonious types who get excited about the misdemeanours and mistakes of others always seem to think it is different when they break a rule of f@ck up.
Somehow then it is "different"

What I do know is that those who come on here having watched a video and think they know the whole story and feel free to throw opinions about airmanship around are living in glass houses.

Wokkafans - agreed. Ten Tors is an amazing experience for anyone who takes part and everyone involved in the preparation and management of the event should be thanked for helping transform lives.

lala - methinks the lady doth protest too much:)

Many moons ago, the cargo outfit I worked for sent an IL76 into Roberts, Liberia with a couple of UN helicopters.

I believe the runway had been damaged by mortar fire, but against the odds our chaps landed safely and delivered their precious cargo.

However, in their haste to leave Liberia for somewhere less lively, they blew the helicopters over as they taxied away. Doh....

Sh!t happens.....

If one of those loos had been occupied, the result would have been what - death, paralysis? It may be funny to see a ****ter spinning through the air but a professional airman would probably choose to avoid it.

Nice idea high spirits - and if this had been the first error to do with downwash we could do just that.

However this is a regular occurrence and is almost always avoidable by the use of airmanship and awareness - maybe they don't teach that in the modern RN.

Tourist are you really suggesting it is acceptable to be in a 'low arousal' state when you are flying a multi million pound helicopter on an approach to the hover???

Low arousal might be an excuse after several hours in the cruise or dip but not after a short hop to Dartmoor.....its just very poor.

Did the event get DASORd and what did RN flyng standards do about it if so?

So this is what is meant by 'brownout'??


Too true, too true! Not just funny to the British - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyu5-hkWNIE

Ok Lala I'll bite.

How about the other circumstances going on here such as:
1. The crews and MAOT informed the organisers that they need to move the loos when the site was recce'd the week prior to the gun move. The toilets were moved approximately 6 feet so that they backed onto the low wall to brace them.
2. The aircraft is heavy as it is carrying a heavy gun, it is also in the downwash of the lead aircraft, running out of power.
3. The lead aircraft has landed short leading to surprise in the second aircraft which is trying to overshoot well before it gets near the toilets.

There are many holes in this cheese and they all lined up perfectly on this instance. Whilst they may hold some of he blame poor airmanship can't be nailed solely at their door. The low wall made it look a lot more impressive than the event really should have been.

Whilst we are here though what about the 24 ill children that got airlifted off the moor by the 2 aircraft and the rescue teams over the weekend? I see you didn't want to talk about that. Get off the bus

M99

That's what they were there for and the weather was nice all weekend -do you want them written up for medals or something??

Back to airmanship - so, too close to the lead and too low - poor airmanship again - formation flying isn't rocket science!
so the second aircraft was too close and the lead porked his arrival - who are you going to blame for that? The contractors??

This wasn't holes in swiss cheese, this was a poor example of flying skills - what on earth woiuld they have been like in an operational environment, in the dark or poor weather?

Good airmanship is the ability to predict problems and avoid them rather than arriving in a sh*tty mess. A pairs arrival with USL should be absolute bread and butter to junglies.

It is still funny:E

Unlike Lala who is perfect in all things and never makes mistakes.....:rolleyes:

Best we never go flying. Lala is watching :=

No, the MAA is watching, on behalf of the British taxpayers who expect their Armed Forces to live up to slogans like 'Be the Best' - at the moment, 'Fly Navy' looks like short hand for gashness.

Ahhh.

I think it is becoming clear....

Was there a girl who, despite your perfection, preferred the pilot in the Dark Blue uniform Lala?

Even though you are perfect?

Jumping to conclusions Tourist - I have been that pilot in Dark Blue which is why I am so disappointed by their performance and your attitude!

It's probably a dastardly plot by the RAF involving a map which moves the portaloos by 200 miles.

Surely you are not suggesting the Navy blames the RAF when anything goes wrong???;)