I really can't understand the fuss about this - it's what people do when there isn't a war on - all sides

I'm a little surprised Donald Trump hasn't made some statement about how the Russians would have been shot down if he were President.

John Kerry has said it for Trump

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-could-...101637773.html

Within US rules of engagement to have shot these boys down. Vincennes rules?

What a warmongering idiot 'Lurch' Kerry is....

US isn't going to be intimidated on the high seas? Well, Mr World Policeman, suggest you ***k off out of the Baltic and go home.

I've had first hand experience of intimidating RT calls from 'Red Crown' whilst transiting in controlled airspace between Saudi Arabia and Egypt. "Clear to proceed", indeed....

The Vincennes incident was nothing short of criminal. Capt Rogers should have been court martialled for his reckless actions; instead the incident has never been fully explained and Rogers was actually decorated....

Why should they F off Beag's? Because you say so?

No, because of the sort of utterances made by John 'Lurch' Kerry....


If his comments represent US policy, then it simply isn't safe for the USN to poke its nose into the Baltic.

Russian Jet Threatens U.S. Recon Aircraft

A Russian fighter jet flew dangerously close to a U.S. RC-135 reconnaissance aircraft on Thursday in the latest military provocation by Moscow over the Baltic Sea, the U.S. European Command said Saturday.

“On April 14, a U.S. Air Force RC-135 aircraft flying a routine route in international airspace over the Baltic Sea was intercepted by a Russian Su-27 in an unsafe and unprofessional manner,” said Navy Capt. Danny Hernandez. “This intercept comes shortly after the unsafe Russian encounters with USS Donald Cook,” he added. “There have been repeated incidents over the last year where Russian military aircraft have come close enough to other air and sea traffic to raise serious safety concerns, and we are very concerned with any such behavior.”

Hernandez said the U.S. aircraft, a militarized Boeing 707 jet, was operating in international airspace “and at no time crossed into Russian territory.” “This unsafe and unprofessional air intercept has the potential to cause serious harm and injury to all aircrews involved,” he said. “More importantly, the unsafe and unprofessional actions of a single pilot have the potential to unnecessarily escalate tensions between countries.”

According to Hernandez, the Su-27 carried out “erratic and aggressive maneuvers” by approaching the RC-135 at a high rate of speed from the side.The Russian jet “then proceeded to perform an aggressive maneuver that posed a threat to the safety of the U.S. aircrew in the RC-135U,” the spokesman said.“More specifically, the SU-27 closed within 50 feet of the wing-tip of the RC-135 and conducted a barrel roll starting from the left side of the aircraft, going over the top of the aircraft and ended up to the right of the aircraft,” he said............

UW: "Aircraft approaching US warship, identify yourself!"
Bas: "TriStar . . . at etc etc. Could it be us?"
UW: "Ah, we thing it's a helicopter."

We know the US carries a big stick, why do they no longer speak softly?

So what's your take on the Vincennes incident then?

Hint. Don't call it an accident.

My take?

A major cock up. No less, no more. The command element of the ship should have been held accountable and USN procedures examined in depth.

The shootdown has nothing to do with beagle's anti US rant however. Don't find ways to connect the dots between a statement from Kerry now, Beagle's often trotted out, decades old whine ago about being challenged and the suggestion that freedom of navigation rights should be stuffed and the ship should return to US waters. You'll be as crazy as him if you do.

"flying a routine route in international airspace" sounds a bit like gummintspeak to me.

How close to the 'edge' of this international airspace were they?

Did they "accidentally" push it a bit and cut a corner?

Was the plane in fact spying on Russia?

Did we learn nothing from the incident in April 2001 when China captured one and her crew intact?

etc

I'm sure the Russians 'train to fight' like everyone else. I would think that not only do they have the right to run their manoeuvrers against the ship, but are in fact duty bound to get their training value from the opportunity presented. If they didn't, they would be incompetent surely? A bit of an airshow at the end of the sortie enjoyed by all by the looks of it. Can't be much fun looking at empty blue horizons day after day.

Apparently, John Kerry has said that "under the rules of engagement that could have been a shoot-down..."

So erm, just what are the ROE in international waters these days?

Well, as the US militarily encircles Russia and China in preparation for regime change in those countries, we can expect more so called 'Russian aggression' and 'unsafe' operations. I suppose slaughtering millions of innocent lives around the world over the last century can be considered safe?

MSOCS, you must be bloody joking??

Yes I will rant and post links. As should everyone else. I am not anti-American, but I am anti-American regime. Washington will end up destroying this world.

I'd guess that the manoeuvre was not flown as an attack profile because the sensible response would have been to defend the ship.

I'm sure all those chaps and chapesses on both sides know what they're doing ;)

If duty bound as you suggest to train as you fight (I don't disagree) then I doubt the 135 crew would ever have seen the Russian aircraft. In war they'd have dispatched the aircraft quickly, not taking time to increase their own risk.


Just the same for a run in at a ship with extensive AD capabilities.

Well, Secretary Kerry clearly hadn't canvassed the opinion or mood of the ship's crew before jumping up and down with indignation. Most of those sailors were smiling and -as has already been pointed out - filming it with their iPhones etc.

Raid inbound; hands to battle stations; brace for impact?!! Nope, more like hands to Facebook.

There's a lot of context missing in both of these occurrences.

I can only talk about the Donald Cook incident. Standard practice would the the standard "Unknown aircraft bearing xyx etc etc" warning. Second pass both 909s locked on. These were so poweful they could set offf the pyros in the cockpit at over a mile. Third pass same as above with 2 white birds on the rails.

Thanks Basil:
UW: "Aircraft approaching US warship, identify yourself!"
Bas: "TriStar . . . at etc etc. Could it be us?"
UW: "Ah, we thing it's a helicopter."

Warm up to Gulf 1, heard on the open net...'British military helo...circling 1 nautical mile astern...please do not repeat that last manoevre..'

I wonder if the result would have been the same if the ship was using an autonomous weapon system.

I think you mean AUTOMATIC.....................