AAC flying pay
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/12197195/Army-in-MoD-row-after-top-pilots-are-forced-to-hand-back-thousands-in-flying-pay.html

Does anyone know if all those affected have been informed of the error?

One would suspect so if they have been forced to hand it back! But its hilarious in the face of the following from the 2016 pay review:

A FRI for Army Air Corps pilots, which runs for one year but is backdated to April 2015. The FRI offers sums of £50,000 to £100,000 for up to five years’ ROS (see Army Briefing Note 2/16).

Imagine the conversation with army manning: yes Maj Porpington-Smythe we do want to take shed loads of cash from you because of a mistake we made, but would you like this money to stay in this job where you are valued and supported by highly competent administrators? No?

I reckon they'll go after those who just left too (without success)

If you read the equivalent thread on the arrse website, they seem to have no sympathy for the AAC guys on this at all. Very keen on eating their young over there! Not too surprised as aviation takes up a relatively small part of that website, they don't seem to have any grasp of the complexities of flying pay and FRI...and the concept of 'accepted in good faith'.

From what I remember when this case surfaced a few years ago, pilots applied for, and were awarded by the chain of command, flying pay which they were entitled to under the rules as they stood. Then the rules changed and a retrospective overpayment was claimed by the Treasury!:mad:

If there is one thing that gets up people's noses it is an attempted clawback following administrators' cockups.

I know of a case in point where a Wg Cdr working for me [and working his balls off, being not double-hatted but treble-hatted] was in potentially very serious trouble for not checking his money every month. He spent half his year in and out of Bosnia, and was often working all the hours God sent. At the end of a year he had lost a lot of weight and was looking ill.
And he was supposed to check on the bean-counters work, unravelling the most complex calculations..
He was so busy he couldn't even spend his ill-gotten!
The service very nearly lost one of its best men, and this despite his line managers' cries of "you cannot be serious".
It was ever thus, people who just get on with it and trust others to do their jobs properly get mighty kicks up the arse.

I had heard the tale (maybe apocryphal) about someone who was accidently paid a FRI that he wasn't entitled to. Needless to say, the sum of money went into his bank taxed at 40% - however the RAF demanded the full sum of money back, claiming that the tax was nothing to do with them but between the individual and HMRC and he would have to claim back the overpayment of tax himself.

The payback method is always briefed when the fri is given. So know that you will have to pay it all back shouldn't be a surprise if you renege/leave etc. Worse is the Unbriefed trashing of your tax code and subsequent self assessment needed that accumulate fines if not done- move often, don't update your address with the taxman (familiar issues for mil).

The army are right to take it back, the precedent otherwise is if we think you are special enough you can ignore the rules. Where the help should be the amount and timing of the pay back. £25 a month or some such.

The army is cavalier with its pay. It's approach to cea is particularly dodgy. So they should very careful

But that is missing the point. If someone welshes on a ROS linked to an FRI then they will pay the penalty. If people applied for higher rate flying pay and were properly processed and approved by admin staff, then that is no fault of the recipient. Sack the chief blunty for missing such a gross error! I think a good lawyer should be able to fight the overpayment charge, MOD legal is as much use as a chocolate teapot

I am fairly sure that didn't survive contact with HMRC who, not unreasonably, pointed out that you cannot claw back money from people who have never actually received it in the first place, and if the RAF wanted its tax back to get off their arses and do it themselves.


Or words to that effect.

If that is the case, then they should have been aware of the repercussions. However, the article appears to suggest they left because of the pay clawback - not the other way round. If they really were over paid 'in good faith', even after querying it, they have a right to be miffed.

Army helicopter pilots quit in overpayment row - BBC News

I'm having flashbacks to the AIP thread.

Really.:hmm:

You couldn't make this stuff up.

I'm ex AAC, now working abroad.

Rearrange these words to get the real message.

"You can stick your request for repayment, right up your jacksie"

And they wonder why folk leave the UK, never mind the AAC?

Wild horses will never drag me back.:mad:

The MOD recommended that any overpayments should be written off due to the nature of the operations etc. etc.

Parabellum - It was the army that recommended the overpayments be written off. It's the MOD that is insisting that the money be recovered.

OH

All the money wasted by procurement cock ups at the MOD!!??
Perhaps we should give the Civil Servants and MPs a few retrospective bills for the millions they have cost the country.
Write it off for goodness sake.
Somebody should start a petition - lots of us would sign.

While I sympathise with the individuals concerned, surely writing this off will set a precedent and allow retrospective claims for previous pay screw ups. I can think of at least three of my own(albeit not huge).
What always amazes me is the seemingly total lack of accountability within military HR for screw ups that anywhere else would result in a quick exit.

I remember when the quarters at Medmenham were regraded (probably around 2005?) and they discovered that they had been over-graded some years before.

"Can we have our over-payment of rent back, please?"

"No, it's being written off. What's done is done. It's too late now."

Hmm. Why aren't I surprised?

A few years before that, Admin at Waddington had over-paid me allowances. When I pointed it out to them, OC Admin set PNSS on me who arrested me for fraud. Of course, they threw the whole thing out (after keeping me waiting for 7 months). All OC Admin had to say was,

"Well, you shouldn't have taken it in the first place. Now pay it all back."

"Er, just the over-payment!"

"No, all of it, then you can claim what you should have had."

"I did that once already"...

It was a real struggle to get my just LOA rate (Flt Lt PA but ex SA so still entitled to Sqn Ldr LOA). The blunties tried hard to tell me I was wrong but on being shown the letter from a 2 star hard to pay up. The worst part of it all was that they knew exactly what the problem was and exactly who it affected but each individual had to make their own claims.

Do we actually know what the problem is in detail, more importantly why is the interpretation correct now but wasn't all those years ago?

AK- I agree but sideways!

PapaDolmio,

Writing it off might set a precedent, you are quite right. Not such a bad thing really if it sets the precedent that the organisation takes responsibility for it's own screw ups and doesn't leave people hung out to dry for something that is not their own making methinks. How would the average man on the street take to being told he had a debt of 30 grand to repay out of the blue?

Perhaps it might make the organisation take a little more responsibility for governing itself better along with valuing and investing in career management rather than crisis management.

HEDP

HEDP,

Well said.