Airborne Tech vs EngO
 

Good morning all.


I was wondering if anyone could provide some balanced advice?


I've been advised by my SEngO to apply for commissioning as an Engineer Officer via the BES but... I had planned to apply for Airborne Technician upon completion of my current tour as an Av SNCO in Lincolnshire.


While I feel confident that with training and experience I would do well as an Engineer Officer, if I'm honest with myself, it's the 1st line JEngO and SengO tours that interest me and the IPT/Cmd tours don't really appeal at the moment.


I get a great deal of satisfaction from stepping in and leading at the sharp end when there's lots on and few around to do it whilst still managing the whole trade desk, acting as the Trade Manager with SJARs, associated duties management, MAA disciplinary action, standards and practises setting and maintaining and am concerned that going down the BES route, it's an awful long time to invest in something that I'm just not sure I'd get the same job satisfaction from. (If selected)


For me, knowing where my passions and niches lie, I am attracted to Airborne Technician and GE with plans to apply for the commissioned Warrant Officer scheme if I reach the rank.


Do you guys think that's a sensible course of action or would you advise applying for EngO straight off the bat.


Many thanks,


PF (no longer fixing Pumas!)

A big decision. Good to seek advice (even from the sometimes jaded membership of pprune!). If it were me, I'd look at a visit to 'shadow' an AT (where are they now? Waddo?) and maybe a chat with a few other EngOs to get an idea of the 'view from over the fence'.
Preparing for either will involve the same sort of work (see the commissioning club for advice - assuming current station has one).
Choose a preferred option - go for it and if knocked back, think about if option 2 is better than waiting for another go at option 1. Some research into slots/chances of success may swing your decision one way or another (future for the AT role?)
Having been aircrew and gone commissioned, both careers are challenging and rewarding so make the most of what you end up with and you won't regret it.
You'll need a thick skin in the meantime - suspect the tea-bar pprune readers will put your ex-Puma and current Lincolnshire role together to blow your cover ;)
Remember, the gripers and wingers will still be wallowing in their misery when you are long gone and enjoying your next role. Good luck.

Great reply! Thanks.

Personally I would also think ahead post RAF, I know it's probably years in the future, but the time will arrive and you need to consider which will be a career enhancing move.
Unless of course you dream of driving a bus post RAF, in which case forget what I said.

Interesting and informative posting, in my day there was a very good reason that the engineering positions mentioned were kept separate... Independent Oversight.... Still what do I know of your locale...

If I was faced with your decision, I would probably apply for the Commission. The command/IPT tours would come later, so you would have time to enjoy the 1st and 2nd line work, and grow into your role as an Engineering Officer. Of course, OASC could reject you for many reasons, but the fact you applied will work for you, and may help the subsequent AT application. And as an AT you can re-apply for EngO at a future date if you still wish to pursue it.

Just my take.

Proper JEngO tours are hard to come by and generally reserved for the high flyers. You could end up as OC GEF. Would that float your boat?

I was in your shoes, albeit nearly 30 years ago and went the commissioned route and do not regret it. Going airborne technician could be fun for a while but its not a long term career unless you want to stay in until 55, an engineering commission will open a lot of career doors for you when you leave, there is also the pension to consider. I did a J Eng O tour and PT job and it was the PT job that formed the bulk of my CV on leaving. It's a personal choice though and I wish you well.

Motivation for Commission
 

Hi,

firstly, I went the airman to commission route and it was the right decision for me. I'm going to dish out some advice, which might seem harsh, but is meant to provoke serious thought on your part.

Why do you want to commission? Because the SEngO suggested it, or because you want to improve your career and undertake the responsibilities commissioned service brings with it? The EngO role you describe is few and far between; you can sensibly expect to see a JEngO tour once in four tours and similar for SEngO (these are now competition based). The rest of the commissioned Eng life is doing desk work and will involve PT work, staff tours, tea boy at Air Cmd etc. You will find many of the Flt Lt Eng Officer jobs are engineering administrative in nature - stepping in and taking the lead to get an cab flying will happen rarely in your commissioned career. Ask yourself: are you a great SNCO looking for more responsibility, or someone who is genuinely attracted to the commissioned existence?

Now for the good bit; being commissioned opens up some very interesting doors and will allow you to get involved in stuff you will never otherwise see as an NCO. I worked in industry for several years, worked abroad and undertook responsibilities well above my rank. I have a CV I can be proud of and do not underestimate the kudos being commissioned brings. I left the RAF 18 months ago and earn way more than I did as a Flt Lt - doors opened by virtue of my training, experience and managerial CV.

An ex-airman friend and I were talking a few weeks ago and we both agreed our favourite times were as SACs/JTs working on the Sqn/line. However, our commissioned paths have afforded us significant managerial opportunities and financial stability. Being at the sharp end is fun, but the money/responsibility comes with more administrative (but mentally challenging) engineering roles.

Per the advice above, take the time to visit the ATs. Shadow a JEngO, then shadow a PT EngO and visit someone at Air Cmd. Only then will you see the full spectrum of what being a commissioned EngO truly entails and you can then make an informed choice.

Good luck and never lose sight of what makes you professionally and personally happy.

H

(please feel free to PM if you like)

Can't add anything to the commisioning side, but they are looking for AT's on RJ currently. I've looked into AT recently, the E3D AT slots are booked up for the next 12-18 months, but you can still register your interest.

My suggestion would be to arrange a visit to Waddo (or where they respective fleets are boltholed atm) and spend a couple of days looking at the various roles AT's perform on the aircraft. Most poeple I've known that have gone down the AT route don't regret it. But it suits some folk and not others, like most things in life!

PM me if you want more information, and a steer to who you need to speak to on the E3D side of things.

My SiL is now a wg cdr. His route was Av Tech in REME with AAC. Commissioned in RAF thence OC CIS Eng, Corsham, IOT, MOD (no where near MB), thence a sqn ldr tour I can't recall, then wg cdr in AFG then in MOD, now at Shrivenham.

Each has compounded on his experience in previous roles and he is now seeking employment outside. Essentially variety over stability.

Hi all.


Just an update.


I applied for BES. Got through both parts of OASC and am now on a reserve list for 2016 / in the sift for 2017.


Many thanks,


PF

I am surprised you have had no replies, I would just like to say, congratulations and well done.

I'd like to add to Nutloose's congratulations. It's been 22 years since I made the jump from JT to EngO and I don't regret it for a minute. I wish you every success.

Well done PF, best wishes for the future :D

Indeed - PF - well done and also best wishes for the future :)

PF - Congratulations and bonne chance. Next step on what I hope for you will be an interesting and rewarding career

PF,

Well done on getting through Selection.

It may be a moot point now given you have decided on the EngO route, but its never too late for a little more 'advice' to give you confidence in your decision.

I would reiterate the points made by Herc-U-Lease, in fact we went through IOT together and are good friends. That said my perspective is a little different as I left the RAF in 2008. My first tour was in a PT, which laid the foundation for my time as an Officer and my current life in the big wide world. I was fortunate to get Sqn tour next and loved it, but to be honest unless you remain in the RAF and are the next Chief of the Air Staff and BAE hand you a position on their Board, you should have an eye on your future. When you leave the RAF as an Officer you are absolutely looked at differently to someone leaving as an Airman, regardless of rank. That is not to belittle anyone, its a fact - especially if you are looking to move into more significant managerial roles outside of the RAF and rightly so. You will be expected to and will have to cope with far more management responsibility as an Officer vice an SNCO.

I would add that if you do get a Sqn tour that does not mean you will be hands on. For the most part you will be dealing with the running of the Sqn - a lot of desk work, personnel issues, Sqn and Station duties, project of many types etc, not the management of the actual engineering issues, or at least that will be limited. Your NCO's and SNCO's are there to manage that as you know and it's a fine line between the EngO who can and does manage to get involved in respect of some of the more complex Engineering issues without his staff feeling like he is trying to micro manage or deal with things they can cope with and the EngO who totally fails in that regard.

Also, had I not opted for the commissioned route I know for a fact financially I would not be in the position I am now in terms of pension as well as income.

The other thing to remember is that life outside of the RAF does not mean an end to the life you know given there is now so much contractorisation of the military. For example there are now 3 companies in North America who operate large fleets of ex-military jets the military contracts for training purposes, one even has an operation in Germany. Canada itself has two major programs, rotary SAR and fast jet training that are civilian maintain, but military operated fleets. The first 3 jobs I had post RAF were actually just like being in the RAF, but without the uniform, one SEngO type role and two that where akin to something like SEngO/OC Eng (if that still exists in the RAF) and all 3 where in Canada or based out of there, not the UK.

Bottom line is I don't regret my decision to get my spine removed and would suggest you have made the right choice too, but make sure you capitalize on it. There is now far more competition for the decent postings and you will be up against some very hungry and capable direct entrants. Enjoy the time you serve, but plan for the future and regardless of what the armchair critics and sheep would have you believe, there is actually a huge choice of work out in the big wide world - as long as you don't just limit yourself to one small part of the UK and have a resume that demonstrates you are capable and have the experience that will get you an interview.

Best of luck fella

Well done PF and similar thoughts from me spannermonkey.