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Well at least they've both been seen flying again.

Chopper 2004 posted a nice photo of ZM336 at the 'Hall in November 2019 (see Page 15, Post 269 above)

Photo of ZM335 at Fairford July 2019 here -

https://www.airteamimages.com/embrae...ce_339639.html

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L3 - ME training contract - Progress ?
 

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L3 are now mid way through their initial three year RAF contract, so some fifty studes should have completed the ME course on the DA42.

Where do they go after Bournemouth ? A few hours on the Phenom to get up to speed and learn formation flying, followed by OFS on their front-line type ?

Or is it "And Now for Something Completely Different" again ?

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They've already been taught formation flying so no need to hit 45 Sqn, it's straight to their OCU's.

Spare a thought.
 

I bet it does wonders for the confidence and morale of the trainee pilots on the courses being discussed herein, to have the quality of their training being constantly called into question by the assembled experts of Pprune.

This presumes, of course, that the youngsters in question even continue to regard this forum as a useful source.

I realise this seems confrontational and grumpy but I know how it would make me feel.

BV

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Thanks Justa' .... That's good news. The L3 sticking plaster is working.

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I don’t believe there is any formation at L3, no low level either. (Happy to be corrected though). They don’t even fly visual circuits. It’s all CPL-lite IF & asymmetric work. The students are capable & hard-working but they are being done no favors by their abbreviated training. As I understand it there is a continuous ongoing discussion as to where more corners can be cut too. So their first formation might well be in a £160million ac behind a £300million one. What could possibly go wrong?

So we have a sub-PPL EFT course followed by a CPL-lite ‘AFT’ then straight to a ME OCU where unlike their civil counterparts, who spend 8-10 years in the RHS learning their (Strat only) craft from the highly experienced captain in the LHS, they will be doing Tac as well alongside a captain with 3-4 years on type with possibly sub-1000hrs which wouldn’t even get him an ATPL (& captaincy) in the civil world. Then after 3 years & 600hrs he will be looking at captaincy himself & repeat.

As an aside what would the response in the civilian world be if they were truly aware of how little experience, total & currency-wise, some of our mil crews have as they fly in & out of big civil airports?

FYI, this "may" be of interest:

https://assets.publishing.service.go...00663-MFTS.pdf

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So from graduating IOT to starting a FJ OCU is an average of 90 months. Add in IOT itself and the duration of the OCU means that from arrival to a FJ Sqn as a LCR junior pilot takes 100 months.

Not 'is' but 'was' in the period leading up to the date of the letter, January 2019.

Oh, that’s great, it’s back to the roughly 36 months it used to be then! All those holding students will be delighted to be rushed through their training.

Not necessarily, but you can't use old data and assume that it is still valid.

All the talk about formation makes me laugh - on previous ME courses the total amount of formation ME flying sorties was less than the number of fingers on my hand! They fly more formation on their EFT and ME lead in than they do on the ME course!

This is true. A quick look through my logbook shows a max of 3 formation trips with any individual. This was 97-2000. I have no idea what happened before or since.

LJ
 

Aah, but it was far better in the good old days.

BV

Yes I am sh1t-stirring. Please don’t take this post too seriously.

As I understand it there is no longer any form in EFT or ME lead-in, which is the point.

not sure if you want to be taught form on phenom judging by the previous phenom results anyway!!

No, the proper place to teach it is during EFT - cheap ac, good cockpit visibility, easy handling etc.

Ken, you need better sources my dear chap. EFT is set for all ab initio students - either 57 Sqn (more in a second), 16 Sqn or on a UAS.

16Sqn/UAS on the Tutor - roughly 45-50 hours of flying to streaming. (The contract for Tutor runs out for 16 Sqn around 2022).
57 Sqn on the Prefect - roughly 25 hours live and some synthetic to streaming.

Those that stream Rotary go to Shawbury for Basic Rotary Trg (BRT) next.

Those that stream FJ continue on the Prefect/Tutor for Fast Jet Lead In before going to Basic Flying Trg (BFT) on the Texan at Valley.

Those that stream ME will continue on the Prefect/Tutor for either Multi-Engine Lead In (MELIN) if they are going on to Phenom Multi-Engine Pilot Trg (MEPT) or on the Multi-Engine Enrichment Course (MEEC) before they go to fly the Diamond DA42 on the Multi-Engine Out Source (ME(OS)) Course. The MEEC gives extra CRM, Low Level and Formation as ME(OS) does not provide that enrichment required for military ME pilots. The ME(OS) students also complete the Multi-Crew Coop (MCC) course as completed by all airline pilots in the civvy world too. The MELIN does the same low level and formation, but to a lesser extent as I understand, as there is a little bit more (as already mentioned) on the Phenom.

As I said before, there is very little ME formation or low level trg in the syllabus and there wasn’t much on King Air either. Flying formation in a big twin/four jet is a bit different anyway and the studes will be crewed with an experienced Captain on the front line anyway for at least the first tour.

So now over a year on from that report, can anyone comment on the current situation, holding numbers, holding time and training time? Or is it still just as bad...

GT
 

You can say whatever you like but you won’t be able to prevent many of us from thinking you’re a gloating, miserable old (possibly) git!

As for the kool aid remark, I'm afraid you’re a little wide of the mark. In case it escaped your attention, my ‘spare a thought’ remark was intended to consider the mental well being of the students in (or waiting to commence) training. Clearly you would rather ‘points score’ than to think about the young men and women in the system. Your choice.

My involvement with MFTS is solely with the Valley portion (and even then my current involvement can only be described as peripheral at best) and I have no knowledge of the other establishments. Therefore I am not drinking any kool aid. I am just remembering what it was like when I was in that position and how I might have felt.

BV