Well just a couple of points... it never had to launch at an incoming bomber so we don't actually know if it "would" have been perfect at it's job but as I said originally, it didn't have the flexibility to perform outside that cold war "loiter" role. The GR1 had a low level cold war role but was able to perform different roles at different altitudes and to do it very well.

As I stated. There's opinion: Then there’s knowledge.

.....and then there's the facts.

Yes, we should all be grateful for the fact that the F3 was never called to carry out it's primary duty in defence of mainland UK.
It did carry out that role [and others] in various operational theatres around the globe.

The fact that it deterred aggression is an additional plus.

Actually, no. It was just the job for the Gulf War 1, UK QRA, Telic, Southern Watch, Bosnia, etc. Perfect for escort, CAP and long range patrols. It had the legs, persistence and (by then) really good systems. In some respects, it was post-Cold War that it really came into its own.

Vendee,
No-one's disputing that it never fired a shot in anger (though some got close....). My comment was based on your assertion of a lack of flexibility - the airframe and systems seemed well suited to the SEAD/ECR role as envisaged. With the Airships bemoaning "critical mass" and the rather nasty prospect of entering areas with the like of S-400 located in them, a couple of sqns of flexible support aircraft would probably be quite welcome.....maybe we could talk to the Germans about some ECR mods to some GR4s and extend OSD?

My own recollection from GW1 was that the F3 was kept well to the rear. I'm not sure there was much of an airbourne threat in the other ops you mentioned

Leon may put you right on that but I'll take a back seat

Vendee,

I think you're deliberately confusing events with capability. But if that suits your obvious stance (without any real reason) then good for you.

Wrt F16 lease, the rumour I heard was that Portillo offered a wing of F16s to replace the Jaguar force but the RAF brass turned him down as they feared it would put Typhoon numbers (and their future jobs.....) at risk.

Can you post a trigger warning before you mention that exercise? I was involved in some of the discussions, and the thought of staring down the barrels of Messrs Carter-Ruck gives me the heebie-jeebies to this day.

Had it all gone differently, there would be no Typhoon...

Perhaps you need to chat with Sharky :yuk: to get the real deal.....

http://yesterdazelolz.com/wp-content...ley_salute.gif

winchester

LO - apologies old chap! As I said, it was just a rumour.......:E

Courtney Mil, another way of putting that would be to say I'm confusing what actually happened with what might have happened and if so, I'm guilty as charged. I don't have an agenda as you seem to imply but I do think that the GR1/GR4 has been a much more effective and flexible aircraft than the F2/F3 was.

You're comparing a bomber's service record with an interceptor's. And, no, it has nothing to do with "what might have happened". None of that is meaningful evidence for your "substandard" or "it didn't have the flexibility to perform outside the Cold War" comments.

You state your case with the certainty of an experienced F3 operator, but your obvious bias (I eluded to no agenda) suggests otherwise.

In its twilight years, with Link 16, AMRAAM, ASRAAM and the Stage 3 version of AI-24, the Tornado F3 was a formidable interceptor.

But spotters :8 and 'Top Gun' followers will continue to believe that manoeuvrability and Tom Cruise antics matter more...:rolleyes:

So the F-14 would have been a better option for the 80's, 90's early 00's???

Beagle sums it up very well as ever.

Where did you get that pic m8?

The Kreuger Flaps were disabled back in the late 80's and that looks like a more modern pic (grey colour scheme, LAU, dark grey pilot helmet). I flew with them during training and iirc, on my first tour; a lot of weight to reduce the approach speed by a few knots (can't remember the actual number, but 7 rings a bell).

Vendee, drop the anti-F3 thing m8. The F3 did what the GR4 has done...towards the end of its time, proved itself to be an outstanding package. :)

edit: a German Tornado? The navs helmet gives it away I think. I guess they still use the Kreugers.

I don't think the Germans use the Kruegers on the IDS anymore (unless things have changed) and they are not fitted to the ECR variant either. I think Italy is the only nation with operable Kruegers now, but I am a bit out of the loop.

I think 7 kts was claimed but our FRCs only gave a 4 kts reduction (my brain cells are probably in a worse state than yours though).

http://cdn.airplane-pictures.net/ima.../7/72050as.jpg

I think JTO is right, plus it looks like the aircraft in the pic has the Italian ice cream cone under the fuselage