ID system? Forget plastic cards. My cat was found and returned because it had been injected with an ID code that was revealed after one pass with a hand held scanner. Every number is unique. What's the huge problem?

Nothing you've thrown at them militarily to date has worked or prevented the many previous attacks or this latest one.
You kill them here-they don't care. Engage them on their land's on a large scale and they would love that even more because it means they kill more of us, or rather you military servers. Its exactly what they want.
And then they will retaliate even further, here.
Only key intelligence, interdiction, practical and intelligent screening and possibly some internment even may work but at massive cost to us in civil liberty, money and blood to stop further outrages.
I knew these days would come, and now they're here.
Self fulfilling, continually revolving cycle of violence.
I would go in the direct opposite of violence to meet ISIL.
Note to western peoples -on this issue think less with balls and use the brain more.

My God! Thank you so much Melchett; just when I'm about to burn my internet connection to the ground when faced with the overwhelming stupidity of the reaction to all this (largely driven by the media who can't handle anything remotely complex), there appears a nugget of rational thought. If only the governments concerned weren't quite so stupid, there might be hope for all of us.

Following on...
 

..from my rambling tour of London last week I couldn't help but notice that many/strike that all the people who I spoke to/interacted with/relied upon for help or service who weren't white just happened to be spot on with me, and I be a white man, or pinkish/puce even. They numbered many. London being well on its way to being its own state or country anyway this is to be expected and is quietly being organized as such anyway-has been for many years.
All this bollocks about making people carry id cards, putting the screw on muslim followers would just be an utter, utter disaster and would alienate many people further. Not the world/UK I want to live in .
We are all presently far to under the yoke of state control and interference as it is, we need less-not more.
So get thinking.

We didn't reduce to the level of the Japanese guards of WW2, or the SS or any other thug. We held above that low despicable behaviour and upheld ourselves at a certain level. British people aren't saints or angels and neither are the French. But we should maintain a standard.
Hands up who thinks killing Britain Jihadi John last week was a good idea, in the manner he died?
Well not me - count me out of that.
Making it up going along has got us here.
We need fair law, and standards above the level of ISIL to get through this.
We need intelligent leaders, an intelligent electorate within a correctly functioning democracy. Not easy and I wouldn't start from here but we need to do better than the instant military solution (not that that even remotely exists).

Need a World Summit, now. Lock them in rooms until they come to an agreed decision. Or we fail here and now and many, many more worldwide will die.
Paris attack is nothing, we have seen nothing to what will and can occur in Europe unless we all wake up and begin dialogue and some sort of consensus.
Please no more talk of air strikes, drone attacks and limited ground wars. That's is the failed past.

A problem with meeting is meeting with an empowered negotiating team with a defined set of aims and the flexibility to modify those aims.

We have a very tolerant multi-racial, sexually equal society.

They want sharia law, masculine led society with no alcohol and single religion.

Now negotiate.

No silver bullet, I have as few workable ideas as the next person.

PS, HS you posted while I was writing. ISIL has neither the organisation, franchise, or will. They have not articulated any terms or conditions.

Only other time NATO has approved an Article 5 action was after 9/11. Won't force any other nation to participate - but will legally authorise military action by those who wish to do so.

Telegraph: NATO will Declare War on ISIL


A former Supreme Allied Commander for Nato has predicted the military alliance will declare war on Isil and send up to 15,000 combat troops, writes Ben Farmer, Defence Correspondent.

Adm James Stavridis forecast the attacks would prompt France to invoke the alliance's article 5 collective self defence clause, which states an attack on one member is an attack on all. The clause was used for the first and only time so far after the 9/11 attacks and led to the Nato military campaign in Afghanistan.

Adm Stavridis said: "I believe Nato should declare this article 5 and enter the fight." Military action would start with special forces raids and more air strikes, and include more training for Iraqi and Kurdish Peshmerga forces. He said faced with attacks on three fronts it would soon become clear that Isil "are not 10 feet tall. Nato can do this".

Most of the ground forces fighting Isil would be Iraqi and Kurdish, he predicted, but Nato troops would still be needed. He said: "I think this will be a mission of Nato boots on the ground in the range of 10,000 to 15,000."

Article 5? Are they taking the piss? Where was NATO when the IRA were bombing london? You can't declare war against a group of homegrown, brainwashed, ideological maniacs! The first identified bomber from Paris was born in Belgium, what are we going to do roll the tanks into Brussels?

Hangarshuffle, how would you have dealt with Jihadi John, sent a couple of plainclothed coppers in and asked him to come down to the station? Very Corbynesque.

Other nations have a rather more robust, if perhaps primitive, way of dealing with terrorists:

:hmm:

French air strikes on Raqqa, Syria. From the French Defense Ministry:

“The raid, including 10 fighter jets, was launched simultaneously from the United Arab Emirates and Jordan. Twenty bombs were dropped.”

The operation, carried out in coordination with U.S. forces, struck a command center, recruitment center for jihadists, a munitions depot and a training camp for fighters.

The centre of ISIL is Raqqa. Whilst its unfortunate -it needs to become a place where life doesn't exist . So rather than small targetted strikes - its more a case for multiple B-52 strikes. We cannot remain in this dream that ISIL have any ideas of meeting at conferences or adopting standards .

If we do not deploy overwelming force - they will become a continual threat
to the Middle East and the West.

This is the best way to make it clear to any group that this sort of insurgency is futile. How can we sit at the negotiating table with people whose prime aim is to take over the world and impose their "backward ass" ideology. There simply is no room for negotiating. Firm action at an early stage may well be the best solution in the short term.

BUT what really needs looking at is who is funding and supporting these "terror" groups, that is where we need to focus our diplomatic efforts. Some think it is another Kingdom in the region, but as we still need oil there appears to be nothing we can do.....

Yeah, I'm sure flattening the place and killing hundreds of innocent people is exactly what's needed! Just cut out the middle man and open up an IS recruitment office.

OK, we don't bomb them.

We don't intern them.

We kiss and make up, is that for men or women?

European women to wear burqas.

Cut prison population. Impose flogging, stoning, beheading.

Will that appease them?

Who's trying to appease them? But do you honestly believe carpet bombing Raqqa is the answer? Knee jerk, emotional responses make people feel a little better but seldom do anything of real value.
I seem to remember a gloating US president declaring victory against the Taliban a few months after 9-11. How did that work out?

Reading the comments on here remind me of my favourite Red Dwarf episode where they debate what to do about a monster on their ship - the pacifist is absolutely brilliant!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WgUktfdDy4

How many innocent people still live in places like Raqqa?

I am sure that as quick as people volunteer, if you strike them down, eventually the remaining people will get the message, but that is only a short term fix, you need to find out who is funding and supporting these "terror" groups and fix that politically.

Personally I feel we brought a lot of this upon ourselves by interfering and launching wars. That was done by certain politicians and they seem to be coated in teflon and can do no wrong. So if our politicians are corrupt how can we ask them to deal with the root causes when it suits their ambitions and aims to take us into conflict after conflict.

In the mean time we need to protect ourselves and if the best way to do that today is using force then apply it and plenty of it, make sure people get the message.

Jayland, there may be vicarious pleasure in reducing Raqqa to a rubbish heap but morally that is not where we want to go.

Getting them to a negotiation table might be a laudable idea but they show no inclination to play by 20th Century rules.

This is asymmetric warfare on a regional scale. Pretty clearly there is State sponsorship but no one seems to want to name names.

What course do you suggest?