What's happened?
 

Just left my local pub (so worse for wear!). Met 3 guys, one of which was wearing 2 rings in his pierced bottom lip, had a pony tail and was really racist in his opinion.

It transpired that all 3 were serving members of the RAF.

WTF?

Really? I find it extraordinarily hard to believe that lip rings and pony tails are now acceptable for male (or female for that matter, pony tails excepted) service personnel in the RAF?

-RP

Sounds just a little bit made up to me...

Maybe they're just back from an exchange tour with the RNLAF"...................

Although things have changed a bit so maybe not;

New regulations already ban troop use of marijuana and hashish--even though the drugs are tolerated in Dutch civilian life. Since August, first-time military offenders get a warning, and dismissal follows a second offense.

Current rules still allow ponytails and earrings for many recruits serving in the Netherlands, but grooming rules are being tightened. Soldiers, airmen and sailors serving with United Nations or NATO forces abroad must keep their hair short to conform with international standards.

The air force has already gotten a head start on the army and navy in image reshaping. All air force personnel with long hair had to get trims by Sept. 1.

Adriaan Meijer cut off his blond ponytail recently when he joined the air force as a fighter pilot trainee.

"I was strongly advised to get it cut because where I was at, it wasn't considered acceptable," he said. "It's like working for a company now; you choose to take the job and these are the rules and you have to follow them."

Meijer said that during his conscript days eight years ago, "people were high on hashish most of the time or they just sat around and drank coffee."

Life these days on the air force base is quite different.

Two rings, flt lt?

Ponytail, RAF Provost under cover?

Nobody so far has found that bit unbelievable? Hmmmm

The guys were definitely RAF as I know the local station well. I also asked them questions about their trade which left me in no doubt that they were indeed serving. The pony tail was very short, bunched on top of his head and I guess he could remove the lip rings for work. It just seems that standards have slipped so much.

That's more correctly called a 'topknot', rather than a ponytail. It doesn't take particularly long hair to be able to have that style (though it does take a certain absence of sense), so I have little doubt that the guy would be able to abide by QRs when in uniform.

As for the lip ring, if the piercing is pre-existing to his time in uniform, then it's a permanent hole. Again, when not in uniform he can do what he likes with that.

Standards have slipped? Or perhaps the modern RAF is more inclusive and puts more emphasis on what a person can do in their trade, rather than looking pretty for a parade?

or maybe not
 

A few years back, actually probably quite a few, I remember being indignant to hear that new recruits to the army were excused boots and allowed to wear trainers for the initial few weeks of training. Apparently, their poor little feet weren't used to such hardship, after a childhood in trainers. I wonder how many of those lads went on to fight like Trojans in Iraq and Afghanistan ?

Only a thought, could they be ex RAF now employed as civvie contractors? That would account for their knowledge of the local base if they worked there.

Sound almost like civvie techies.

Definitely serving members. Came up in the conversation.

Well then there you go. Some people who are part of a very large and diverse organization have personal standards and views not shared by some other people.

I liked that..
"Some people have personal standards... etc."

Ahem! Are we talking about military servicemen?
What next?, I ask - issue make-up and uniforms in a more flattering shade?

What's happened?
 

I feel absolutely sure that, whilst at work, their friendly SWO ensures they adhere to the correct standards of dress. Outside of work does it really matter?

I'm on leave right now and have a beard to rival Ming the Merciless. Have my standards slipped?

BV

I take all of the points on board, however....
When I joined in 1971, we were told in no uncertain terms that whether on or off duty, we still represented the RAF and all it stood for. That we should always set a good example and be a credit to the Force. I still feel that dressing in that manner whilst openly declaring the fact that they're members of the RAF doesn't shed a good light on them or the RAF. The open racism was an entirely different matter but still one of concern (I feel).
I can also understand that times move on but can't help but feel that standards have slipped one heck of a lot.

Standards have changed.

Change. It's something that a certain generation is stereotypically bad at accepting.

Pingdit
 

I don't believe standards have changed. Times have changed. Fashions have changed. My parents generation would have been alarmed at the fashions of the 80s (as should we all be - it is the decade that fashion forgot after all). Their parents generation would have been alarmed at their sartorial choices in the 60s. I could continue ad infinitum.

I'm afraid that whenever I read threads like this I just believe it makes the poster look old and out of touch.

I'm not saying I like the sound of the fashions you have described, I just respect their right to choose to look as stupid as they like. Like it or lump it this does not reflect a lowering of military standards. It is just an acceptance of modern times.

I do not condone the racism but any man who has hair long enough to make a top knot is clearly not a high intelligence individual!

BV:E
(Is there an emoticon to show judgmentalness (is that a word?) and pompousness?!)

Reference post 13.

As an aside, for what it's worth, I don't think it's accurate to describe the RAF as "..a very large organization..".

Back to the topic.

Which bit is inaccurate?...'large', or 'organisation':E

And BTW, one man's racism is another man's right to a private opinion, providing he doesn't harrass or threaten anyone. What did the pony-tail wearing nonce say?