The Government's "Fox Hunting Bill" foiled again!!!
Well.....for 12 months anyhow.
And the mighty 12(B) get to Lead the Field a little while longer.

Why don't we just buy back all those Harriers we gave to the US, and some of those AV8s that are standing out in the US desert doing nothing?

1. Because there is no support structure remaining in the UK and no money to pay for one.
2. Because a significant number of those frames have been xmas-tree'd to provide spares for the US fleet.
3. Because the only AV8 frames in the desert are 50 of ours and the USMC want all of them to keep their AV8s viable to OSD.

P6 Driver,

On a previous thread, I posted references to Fallon's first speech as Defence Minister back in October. Two of those referred to 'Fleets of new fighter aircraft' and 'Our armed forces have not been in a better state since the end of the Cold War'. I've seen nothing in his subsequent public comments over Defence matters that point to his greater understanding of things. I recently wrote to my new Con MP to seek her views on Defence: she gave me a fulsome reply which simply lifted, verbatim, quotes from that original Fallon speech. :E

HD & SQ

the difference this time is there's nothing else left (unless they get their act together with the Typhoon). The embarrassment of telling the world we can't do offensive ops would be unacceptable to the British public and Government.

As for what we've scrapped. In those temperatures the Jag and Harrier would struggle (Harrier less so), and after what happened to the poor Jordanian F16 pilot, who would want to fly single engine anyway?

Don't get me started on the MPA fleet...

Thanks, Not_a_Boffin, but what a waste. It'll have to be Airfix kits after all, unless they've also gone to the wall.

Now where did we put all those Canberras?......hat, coat,,,,,,,,,,,,

At least it wouldn't take 5 years to clear a new weapon on a canberra!

MustRefurbishCanberraAgain. Oh bogger...thats what we're talking about!

Oleo,
There isn't any recognisable UK strategy in the Middle east, and hasn't been since...2005 or 2006 (if ever)? The bombing makes little news and seems to make less sense. Most UK citizens will have little idea why the Tornadoes are used and to what purpose.
The crews must be incredibly dedicated, high end professionals and nothing less to keep on doing this - In fact I know they are.
But to what end?
I would love to see a no holds barred, alcohol fuelled late night TV debate between the general public, the military who have served, their military bosses and the politicians who issued the orders about it all.
Costs wont even commute with our Govt. of any hue - they hose our money away in incredible amounts.

Recent governments clearly boxed themselves in with the "5 or 6 FJ sqns will be enough" statement. What's now even clearer is that the planning assumptions that underpinned those decisions were gravely flawed - as most of us on here knew at the time.


it doesn't matter how "network centric" your new jet is - if you've only got a handful of them you're stuffed. Instead of continually chasing the technology what would be better is a more balanced (and overall larger) force of old and new. There's many on here that have bleated time and again about buying a few squadrons worth of Super Hornets or Strike Eagles to augment Typhoon, and the more you think about it the more it makes sense. Seems to work OK for the Aussies after all.


Long live the Mighty Fin!

anything :sad:

Items 3 and 4 would likely be 'bottled' by item 2 within 3 minutes. Item 1 would likely be pleased to see their military winning for a change. ;)

Exactly what are the UK's objectives, and exactly how will current force deployments achieve that?

And would somebody please explain why F-35s are needed when the UK is being successfully invaded via Calais and Eurotunnel?

ISTR reading that 19th C objections to tunnel were predicated on preventing invasion from the Continent - and Napoleon was a pussycat compared with ISIL

I'm glad to see somebody recognising that the UK is being invaded through the Eurotunnel. Would the UK's response be any different if all the migrants were marching through wearing a military uniform? If so, what is the difference? The uniform?
It smacks of a government that is lurching from crisis to crisis with absolutely zero forward planning.

calm down!

no -one has managed to get through the Chunnel on foot - the latest guy was detected 15 km out

just before the Chunnel was opened a couple of Army units were relocated to the area - IIRC the Gurkhas are based close to the UK entrance portal

and you could always just flood it .................

Well, if the Gurkhas are involved an intruder will only need to cough out of turn and his head will be talking to his feet. I am content...................

HH, the tunnel is the last of our worries. Who is stopping the migrants coming across on boats in their hundreds. Of course it's not talked about because there is really nothing we can do about it! There are thousands of movements to and fro by private boats and yachts between England and France every weekend in summer.

UK to beg Italy and Germany for spare parts for RAF bombers
Meanwhile...

There's a couple of TSR2's at Duxford and Cosford if it helps to lighten the load...?

"There are thousands of movements to and fro by private boats and yachts between England and France every weekend in summer."

Indeed - have you MET the average yacht owner????? Not the sort of people who suddenly decide to load up with a couple of dozen refugees - I'll bet 95% of them are UKIP supporters