UK fighter numbers to reach all-time low with loss of Tornados and early Typhoons in
 

Ouch! One wonders just how much fat there really is left to cut, or are we well and truly now cutting into bone?

UK fighter numbers to reach all-time low with loss of Tornados and early Typhoons in 2019 - IHS Jane's 360

Never mind cutting into the bone, we've been cutting through the bone in so many areas, for quite some time!!

I'm starting a rumour that the British military serial number system is going to be scrapped - we'll just give the aircraft names instead.

You heard it here first!

I suppose this can only come off as a stupid question, but -

Do Typhoons really only last ten years?

Seems astonishingly bad value for money.

P

Presumably we are already at a record low number of 'fighters'? All that is changing in 2019 is that we will be setting a new record.

Phil_R,

No, they don't. The plan to replace Trance 1 was simply part of the capability growth. The article did mention the possibilty of keeping them on, but that would depend on the Government being willing to miss another opportunity to save money.

And then you deduct the number of aircraft under long term maintenance and a myriad of other reasons why they are on the ground. God forbid typhoon ever gets grounded with a fleet problem.

"You fight the war with the kit you've got". Hmmnn...I really hope there is no war coming? Oops:uhoh:

OAP

That's true, but 2019 will (???) represent the absolute nadir, with numbers (hopefully) rising after. Even so, as the article states, they are not likely to rise much above 150 aircraft.

So Tranche 1 aircraft are not able to be upgraded to full swing role configuration? So retain some as QRA aircraft in air-air fit only. Or is that too sensible?

Re the author's argument: What would be the point of retaining the Tranche 1's if there aren't the aircrew to fly them, or the budget to keep them current?

Or is this the plan?


And, as Courtney says, when was the last time you saw the Government miss a chance to save money?

Not too sensible at all Martin, and I think that is what the author of the article was suggesting when he said "they remain highly potent air-to-air fighter platforms and should be able to more than match any adversaries that they might meet in this arena for a number of years yet".

Surely, the manning plans have been drawn up with the reduced platform numbers in mind. Increase the numbers of aircraft, and adjust the manning level plans accordingly. As the article points out, all of the Typhoon investment has already been made, and all of the operating and support infrastructure will remain budgeted for out to the 2030 OSD of the T2 and T3 aircraft - how much more would it cost for the T1s to ride along on their coat tails? For sure, there would be an economic hit, but I'd suggest it would be relatively minor when offset by the added capability.

Let's hope so!

Some would say at least one limb has been amputated already...:(

Thanks, Courtney.

I suppose the remaining salient comparison is how much they're worth (53 Typhoons including depreciation seems like several billion) and how much it costs to run them per year, given that support for the type continues in general.

What's that, three squadrons' worth?

P

Interesting editorial comment at the end here UK Fighter Numbers to Reach All-Time Low with Loss of Tornados and Early Typhoons In 2019 (excerpt) , and does somewhat open the MoD up to ridicule with it's response to the original Jane's piece that:

The RAF has and will have the aircraft it needs to meet its commitments around the world, whether that’s conducting Tornado air strikes against ISIL in Iraq, policing Baltic air space and securing the skies over the UK and in Falkland Islands with Typhoon jets, or providing vital surveillance over Syria with Reaper flights. Tough decisions were made during the last Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) to rationalise our fast jet forces into two advanced and efficient fleets and we continue to assess future requirements ahead of this year’s SDSR, which is supported by our £160bn equipment programme that will deliver the fifth-generation Lightning II joint strike fighter.

It's ok, you'll have the F-35 by then.....Maybe..:ugh:

Thank God for the Super Hornet.

But in what numbers Hempy? Only 15 to 20 by 2019, according to the piece, and that's the problem.

We could re-arm the Spits and Hurricanes on the Memorial Flight, I suppose, and buy a few back from the civil register. Even at £1.5 million they would be cheaper than what's on offer now; you could hang a radar pod on one wing and an air-to-air missile on the other.

(I think, perhaps, that I have been too long out in the sun !).

D.

HoHoho. Not.

Are you saying that there are absolutely no conceivable circumstances under which any of HM Forces will ever expand again? and that there isn't the Human resource any longer to facilitate any future expansion?

Don't forget with the defence budget being retained at 2%, Afghanistan no longer an issue and SAR going to Bristow Helicopters, together with a host of new threats to consider, a resurgent Russian Hegemony and IS, is it not just possible that the Tornados could be replaced by the retention of the Tranche 1 Typhoons, allowing the earlier aircraft to become dedicated to the air defence role while the more developed take on the offensive role from the Tornados. It would be a very moderate expansion over a period of time. :ouch:

FB