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TOFO - couldn't agree more. What's more disturbing is the naivety of the holiday-makers:
'Lovely people here, I feel really safe in my hotel' 'It's more dangerous in England' 'Tunisia is a beautiful country, and they are lovely people there and the hospitality is exceptional. 'We were saying to each other that there is probably more of a chance of a terror attack at Manchester airport than here now. Of course you were, dear.'There are Army trucks and police everywhere in Sousse. We have felt completely safe.' |
C-17s and the RAF Regiment are on standby to assist with a NEO. I think that's relevant. So, as we have FE on standby to conduct all sorts of activities pretty much across the world (granted, at various stages of readiness) then not only does this forum become a 'virtual crewroom' it appears that it is PJHQs 'virtual crewroom'. :D |
Apart from being reported on the BBC and Telegraph...(granted, not in the Daily Mail)
The Tunisian terrorists better get a move on to get to BZN before the journos |
Not exactly, wrathmonk. The OP was a rant at the System the FCO is required to work to in this context and the power it hands to our enemies. Not because I necessarily disagree with their Tunisia assessment right now. Such advice is almost always a stable door/bolted horse situation. But the real issue is the highly-publicised link between the murder of British citizens and our govt doing something the terrorists want.
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Whenurhappy
Apart from being reported on the BBC and Telegraph ShotOne I don't disagree with your OP - just think it would have been better placed in a more 'open' board (perhaps even into the SLF and R&N boards?) to get a more "balanced" view.:ok: |
The FCO are in a 'no-win' situation here, damned if they do and damned if they don't. "You've spoilt my holiday and I spent all my benefits on it," or "Another 50 holiday-makers killed in a terrorist attack in xxxxx; why didn't you warn us or stop us from going?"
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Sorry, "NEO" decodes as....?
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"NEO" decodes as.... |
Look, call me naive or ignorant, but does anyone honestly think that Brize Norton would NOT be on standby to provide airlift capabilities? As soon as Hammond made the announcement it was blatantly obvious that the phone would be ringing in Oxfordshire, public domain or not.
If you want flight times, just google the airport that the civvie flights are using; it's very helpful about such things, and I'm sure that IS can use a search engine as well. So can we drop the pompous tone that one or two posts have taken on please? And if anyone thinks that a similar event could not happen here in the UK, there are some short memories around. Or have some people forgotten what happened at Woolwich Barracks just over two years ago? |
WM - silly me - many thanks
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Has anyone actually read the FCO travel advice?
Since the attack in Sousse, we have been working closely with the Tunisian authorities to investigate the attack and the wider threat from terrorist groups in Tunisia. Although we have had good co-operation from the Tunisian government, including putting in place additional security measures, the intelligence and threat picture has developed considerably, reinforcing our view that a further terrorist attack is highly likely. On balance, we do not believe the mitigation measures in place provide adequate protection for British tourists in Tunisia at the present time and we have therefore changed our travel advice accordingly. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) advise against all travel to: the Chaambi Mountain National Park area the Tunisia-Algeria border crossing points at Ghardimaou, Hazoua and Sakiet Sidi Youssef the militarized zone south of, but not including, the towns of El Borma and Dhehiba within 5km of the Libya border area from north of Dhehiba up to but not including the Ras Ajdir border crossing The FCO advise against all but essential travel to the rest of Tunisia. If you’re in Tunisia and you don’t have an essential need to remain you should leave by commercial means. Tour operators are arranging additional flights and will be organising departures for their customers. If you’re travelling with a tour operator, you should contact your tour operator’s representative in the first instance. If you’re travelling independently, you should make your own arrangements to leave. Commercial airlines are operating. If you need consular assistance (above and beyond travel information) you should contact the British Embassy in Tunis. |
And if anyone thinks that a similar event could not happen here in the UK, there are some short memories around. Or have some people forgotten what happened at Woolwich Barracks just over two years ago? Since the attack in Woolwich, we have been working closely with the London authorities to investigate the attack and the wider threat from terrorist groups in Britain. Although we have had good co-operation from the British government, including putting in place additional security measures, the intelligence and threat picture has developed considerably, reinforcing our view that a further terrorist attack is highly likely. On balance, we do not believe the mitigation measures in place provide adequate protection for tourists in Britain at the present time and we have therefore changed our travel advice accordingly. No, The UK (and the FCO in particular) has not surrendered to the terrorists. Until we get similar messages as I have parodied above, it is 'business as usual'.I get back to my earlier point: why risk lives and resources so that people can go about a discretionary activity - against all advice that is Holy - in a country next to Libya? |
because they are grown-ups and can take their own decisions?
and suffer any consequences of course................... |
They may be able to make their own decisions, however, once the warning was issued, the travel operators would have to pull there punters out as they would be opening themselves up to being sued if they didn't, regardless of whether the punters wanted to leave or not.
.. |
On reflection I recall that I travelled against advice. I don't know it it was that of CBF Cyprus or FCO, but our TA rebooked Egyptian tour to Turkey. We told him to Redbook Egypt.
For £100 each we had a fully escorted tour and saw all the usual tourist sites with the addition of SAM sites, flak batteries, AD radars, torpedo nets, and a superb tactical operation by 4-ship of Fishbed minimising on the ground vulnerability. Our Coke even demonstrated this too with approx 90 kts down the taxy way and the nose wheel off before the marshalling point. This was 5 months before the Yom Kippur war. |
Nutloose and the FCO advice is also crucial for travel insurance aspects. Until the FCO issues that advice then you can't get refund if you cancel. If you travel afterwards then the insurance company will not cover you.
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shot one, I don't disagree with your point either - but it does not change the inevitability, common sense and correctness of the FO position.
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Let's take a step back back, Tofu; Its not about the correctness or otherwise of the Tunisia decision, it's the system. ".grown ups...can take their own decisions" No they can't, and that's the point, HH. FCO "advice" isn't advice in any real sense. It's a command to evacuate. Now we've taught IS how easy it is, how many have consequently been placed at risk in Egypt or Turkey when they repeat the process?
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Shotone, FCO advice is not new. There is FCO advice for many countries. For instance should you fancy fly fishing in the Yemen - don't.
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The FCO tends to play it safe when it comes to travel advice as it goes for the lowest common denominator. Their current advice for Iran is not to go there even though it probably one of the safest places in the region albeit without access to an Embassy if things went tits up in any way. The advice had put me off visiting for a number of years to see family, but I went last year and had no problems although it was always at the back of my mind that I had no travel insurance. The FCO advice for Iran is however based on different threats than that of Tunisia and whilst I was happy to go to Tehran and wouldn't be to confident about a trip to Tunis.
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