Marginally better than "planes"!

On Day One in a Blue suit (blue overalls to be exact on Day One :ok:) one was told of two things never to say:

"RAFF" (other than when preceded by RIFF) was one and "plane" (other than a woodworking tool) was the other.

The word 'plane' when applied to an aircraft brings out the pedant in me. The BBC when covering the repatriations from Tunisia kept referring to an 'RAF plane' which just made me want to throw something at the screen instead of actually watching the coverage.

"It's an "aeroplane", Mr Bader"

"You shave wood with a 'plane'"

I'm always suspicious of these

"75% of Americans can't find America on map.." type of headlines

Offer the youth of today £ 5 for each correct answer and you'd get a very different response - they (and I ) just don't see why they should always give a correct answer to some journo when you can wind them up with a little imagination....................

Advertisers run adds about the bouncing bomb, the Battle of Britain letc all the time and they know people will make the connection.............

I wouldn't be so sure. A colleague had one of her A level History students ask
"Is the Pope always a Catholic?" only a few months ago.

Fair question; going back a few hundred years there was a good deal of flexibility regarding the religious (and moral) views of papal appointees!

Not aware youngens
 

A long time ago I was flying the low route from Farnborough to RAE Bedford with a younen beside me, he was holding between courses and going to be a fighter pilot one day. As we passed Twinwoods I pointed it out and said that's where Glen Miller went from. Glen who?. Yhey don't teach em anything anymore

"Sic transit gloria mundi" :(

Who's she ? - never 'eard of 'er !

Not sure everyone knew what was going on at the time.


Forget the book, but seem to remember a BOB fighter pilot swirling around in a fight at the frigid flight levels on a sunny day, after getting hit along with the frozen blood, smoke, etc., he either bailed out or landed his crippled plane on a golf club fairway where he was then lambasted by the club manager for interrupting play at a very exclusive club.


Or something along those lines.


There was a website that displays the day to day operations during the BOB in Calendar format. Anyone have a link?

= "Gloria was ill in a Ford van yesterday...." :ok:

Golf Course Landing
 

Whatsalizad That was PO P J Simpson 111 Squadron (Croydon) who forced landed on the RAC Golf Course Woodcote after intercepting the Dorniers attacking Kenley on Aug 18th 1940.
He was taken to the bar and apparently someone in there muttered about his dress code although I suspect that story has 'grown' over the years.
This would have made a great film shot as the raid came in at 100 ft ,and the Hurricanes from Croydon waded into them at low level. The great loss was Stanley D P Connors who was lost leading 111 Squadron on that day and was probably a victim of the intense ground fire during the raid. He was already an 'Ace' from the French campaign and was up to 11 confirmed EA at the time. It would be fitting if he had some sort of memorial on one of the 'new' Kenley developments.

See posts 41 to 44, you may have upset some posters. Aeroplane or aircraft might be better.

WhatsaLizad asks:

RAF - Campaign diariesBattle of Britain

Magna Carta, did she die in vain?

:D:D:D

Worthy of Anthony Aloysius St John Hancock - or possibly David Brent for the youth.

[was it either of them?]

Edited to add:

It was indeed Hancock (Google is your friend!) In full:

For a few years I used to assist the chap who was responsible for the BoB door to door collection in our village.

You discover a lot about people when you have the temerity to knock on their door and shake a collection tin at them - from in the case of the allegedly richest couple in the village ( he had done well in the 'City' and she ,so rumour had it, had inherited over £10 million when her HK based father had died ), 'What's the Battle of Britain?' - as they were then about 50 years old in 2000 I wanted to scream at their ignorance,- to the poorest old age pensioner widows who insisted they gave everything they had left in their purses and it was often more than the working well-off donated!

One year the chap I helped was collecting on the day of Princess Diana's funeral and a lady acquaintance of mine ( who had been born during WW2 ) said to me, 'That idiot Peter knocked on my door while I was watching the funeral, so I sent him packing with a flea in his ear".

I replied, 'That idiot Peter had flown both Spitfires and Hurricanes in the war and you madam are not fit to lick his boots!'

Brian 48nav,

Well said ! But in mitigation, I would say that she was just one more victim of the catastrophic failure of our educational policies over the previous forty years.

Google has thrown up this extract from the "Grauniad" (unfortunately undated):

"This relentless regime, testing children more than anywhere else in the western world, is associated with a high fall-out rate. At 16, 24% of English schoolchildren leave education. This is the highest proportion of any country in the European Union. Almost one in 10 children do not go on to any further training either. The government is rightly proud of the fact that the proportion of young people who are not in education, employment or training has fallen to 9.4%. But the glitter fades when compared with an overall EU average of 6.4%".

(Note the: "is associated with !" - the old 'Post Hoc' fallacy again: (Event B occurred after [or "at the same time as" - the case here] Event A). Therefore B is caused by A.

My old local greengrocer (just retd.), having somehow found out that I'd flown Spitfires in the war, used proudly to announce the fact to all and sundry every time I went into his shop. Gratifying, but rather embarrassing !

Having said that, I've always been unhappy with the tin-rattling for the RAF Benevolent Fund, and sorry for the ATC cadets who had to do it at BoB Home days and the like. I felt it was demeaning (was I right ?)

Danny42C.

Tin Rattling for B o B
 

Danny 42C
As a Cadet that spent many hours 'tin rattling' (in my case at the Whyteleafe Station level crossing) (where the cars could not escape) I have to say it was a privilege to help the cause, and in my case even better as our Squadron; 450 ATC had our HQ on the old flight apron at RAF Kenley just up the hill.
It was quite easy to be inspired at Kenley due to its part in the front line of the battle, and I still can absorb its presence on my return visits.
Make no mistake whatever line you take this was a pivotal time for the free world and Kenley** 'with ALL the people involved' had an important part in our history.If in this PC mad world this has been played down it is not to anyones credit.I trust you are enjoying the 75th anniversary year and the very best to you. Even in the early 60's this part of our history did not seem to feature much in the education system, so I suspect it is no better now.
** including the other Airfields.

POBJOY,

Don't get me wrong. I applaud your cheerful willingness to volunteer for tin-rattling duty ! But you shouldn't have to do it.

My point is that our Govenments of every hue, although fulsome in their praise for the Armed Forces and the work they are doing, are strangely reluctant to put their hands in the taxpayer's pocket when it comes to helping ex-members of those same Forces when they are in need. There is no such hesitation, for example, when it is a matter of allocating funds to those Policies which (they calculate) will win them votes at the next Election.

After-care of the Forces is left to Service and private Charities (which respond magnificently). But this is an evasion of Government responsibility, which has a particular duty to look after those public servants who have put their lives on the line, and in some cases lost them, in their Service.

This of course holds true for every Service Charity from the Poppy Appeal onward through the RAF Benevolent Fund and to all the others. Certainly they do noble work ! But it is work which the Government could (and should) be doing. The Charities have simply "let them off the hook", IMHO.

Danny.

I said it before, one day, about 20 years ago, I was walking down Lincoln High Street in uniform. A woman hailed me across the street then crossed the road. She gave me a £5 note. She had missed the RAFA collection the week before.

Another time I was doing a street collection for another charity. Young boy, say 12, cycled passed, turned back, and put his pocket money in the tin.

People do care.

PS, asked 10 yr old grandson. Knew BoB was in 19 something. Told him 75 years ago, pause - 1940 he said. Mind you, his dad is in the RAF.

I won't let my kids forget the Battle of Britain. My father's eldest brother was one of The Few, flying Hurricanes. Unfortunately we never knew until many years later as my father had been given away shortly after he was born and never knew his family. His father, my grandfather was in the RFC and I served in the RAF myself but long before the family history was known. Now I insist my kids remember. The second brother was also a fighter pilot, flying Spitfires. Both 'boys' were lost in 1941 aged just 20 and 19.

What's the Falklands War?
 

A few weeks ago I was invited to give a small presentation to some students at my local college showing and explaining about some of the A2A photos I've taken with various military squadrons.


Going through each photo I gave a simple explanation about each photo and the aircraft depicted.
About 7 or 8 photos in was a photo of a Sea Harrier. I explained that they were based just down the road at Yeovilton and that they were instrumental to the Falklands War back in 1982. At this point a student raised his hand and said ' what's the Falklands War?'.
Trying not to seem too shocked that none of them appeared to know, I gave a brief 10 minute or so explanation.


After the presentation several of the students asked questions and I've now been invited back to give a talk about the war 'Down South'.


I think it's easy to find fault with the younger generation but, going on what the students said it's probably more the fault of the teachers and lecturers.

And it might not be their fault, at least not from the current generation - any teacher under the age of 45 may have only hazy memories of the war. Any teacher under the age of 40 will probably not remember it. Any teacher under the age of 32 (and probably 33) will not have been alive when the war took place...

In the grand scheme of school curricula, it is entirely possible that the current generation of teachers and lecturers had no idea about the war simply because no-one had told them (because it was not required in their courses at school or University/training college) and their knowledge is limited, or they are not required to pass on their knowledge through any of the lessons they teach...

And there are more than a few serving RN and RAF officers of my acquaintance who are too young to have any memory of the conflict, were not taught it at school and who are very keen to learn more about it when they get the chance.

I think Danny has it in post #58 - the constant ebb and flow of curriculum requirements and aiming for good league table positions means that breadth and depth of knowledge obtained is often - not always, but often - sacrificed for command of a relatively narrow range of subjects.

Archimedes

Your comments are spot on, Sir. My 'Management' was a headmistress with a speciality in history, she was appalled and frustrated in equal measure at the narrowness and blinkered approach of the National Curriculum. It is little wonder that the generations growing up today have such limited knowledge.

What's the expression? "Those who forget their history are condemned to commit the faults of the past!"

Is it against the law now, to 'just not care'?

Several Ppruners will know that after the RAF my main trade was as a primary school Head. I suspect that the vast majority of the 1000 or so darlings that passed through Golf Academy in my time will be able to answer the question, "What was the Battle of Britain?" Remembrance Day was, and is kept respectfully, and the fallen remembered in prayer. VE Day similarly so.

By the time I left, I had 'grandpupils' in the school. What's it supposed to mean for them? Michael Gove et al want the history of the Tudors and Stuarts to feature more prominently (when modern history was in the ascendancy I bet the traditionalists on here were baying for 'proper' history) so the curriculum sways to oblige.

We're on generation number 5. While they are young, it is, to them, ancient history.

Just saying.

CG

Anniversary-itis
 

A small part of the problem may lie with the 5-year carousel of anniversaries. The dropping of the atom bomb and the Battle of Britain are now being commemorated. Last year we commemorated D-Day. Next year we will remember the invasion of Russia, the sinking of the Bismark, and Pearl Harbour. The current historical preference for viewing the two World Wars as a single entity doesn't help matters. In two years we will commemorate the Somme.

The media, assisted by many of us, believe that it's our duty to resurrect these events repeatedly in the mind of the public, lest they be forgotten. But in perpetuating this merry-go-round, we can hardly blame anyone under the age of 40 for being confused.

Probably because this will likely be the last round of them in any scale. With only 25 of The Few left, when the 80th Anniversary of the BoB comes around it's very likely that 25 will be very much smaller or even none. Of those 25, Tom Neil is the last surviving RAF 'ace' from the BoB, and it's fitting that he'll be in the rear cockpit of one of the 2-seater Spits to lead the 40+ a/c formation out of Goodwood on the 15 Sept.
1 x Blenheim, 8 x Hurricanes and 36 x Spits in the air at the same time - very unlikely ever to be repeated.

As for the Dam Busters!

My casual reference to some aspect dambuster in front of three highly intelligent [and expensively educated] grandchildren brought UNGGGHHHHH ?

So they got the lecture and the film, and on their next visit they will get Woodhall Spa etc.

As they drove off, mum cracked "we've got Nigger in the back!"

On a Radio 2 news bulletin this morning they described the flypast for the Battle of Britain at Biggin Hill today as involving '16 Hurricanes and 6 Spitfires'. Now that I'd like to see.

Very pleased that the Blenheim will be represented, as 10 squadrons of the type are officially recognised as having taken part in the Battle of Britain as well as the understandably better known Spitfires and Hurricanes. The only Battle of Britain group of medals I ever owned was a posthumous group to a Blenheim air gunner. His crew were credited with one kill during the Battle, an Me109, no mean feat for a Blenheim.

Also taking part in smaller numbers were Beaufighters, Whirlwinds, Defiants, Fairey Fulmers and Grumman Martlets of the FAA, and even the old Gloster Gladiator.

As I recall from my Jackdaw wallet file on the Battle of Britain (familiar to a certain age group?) there was a map of the UK marked up with airfields & group/ sector boundaries similar to the one which the WAAFs used on the plotting table. There were little symbols for all the squadrons, RAF & Luftwaffe, which you could position at the appropriate airfields & the sole Gladiator Sqn was at Roborough, Plymouth - 267? Didn't seem like much to defend such an important Naval dockyard.
Perhaps something similar might prove educational for the youth of today?

Close, it was 247 Sqn, formed in July 1940. They were actually using the Gladiators mostly at night to fly defense patrols of the docks/city....which was probably wise.....although when you watch the TFC Gladiator being thrown around within the tight confines of the Duxford airfield perimeter, it's no wonder that 'Pat' Pattle scored as many as 15 kills with it.