@ Biggus, basically what I'm saying is that there will be a very, very small pool of people for which this would work - so fundamentally we agree. Geography is just detail, but yeah your point is solid.

@ Bannock. Dead right. If I was one of them I would be keeping my ear to the ground and possibly whispering "retention bonus" into any ears I though might carry weight. Sadly, I'm well past my sell by date.

@ Avtur, absolutely sir, bollicking accepted, it won't happen again.

Perhaps someone in 'manning' at Binnsworth...oops, I mean High Wycombe, had a sudden flash of inspiration after watching Space Cowboys?

Does the P-8 have wipe-clean rear crew seats?

I do hope so, cos I'm p*ss*ng myself laughing at the predicament that they find themselves in.

what the RAF have done, is absolutely nothing about the nav situation for about the last 5 years and then panicked about the fact they have fu***ed it in spades. They have put plenty of feelers out and even gotten a few bites, the 2 they have got back will replace the 2 they have already lost due to changing the PVR time, apart from the fact they have been out of the cockpit for 5 years of course. Anyhow, as always they fail miserably in making their personnel feel valued. Ho hum.

I can guess how uplifting it must be on the battle proven Tornado sqn's........." Yes, well done you (so last century) Tonka chaps, keep it up, tally-ho. Never mind, we have a nice new(ish) shiny jet coming along that has secured my retirement...AHEM, I mean our future and, don't you know, it needs one less chap on the flightdeck err,.. cockpit. Whassatt?... It doesn't work yet and costs a fortune?...rubbish! Take this man out and shoot him!"

OAP

There are two things IMHO the RAF has always been very bad at - computer programmes, policy and management - eg Innsworth computer lot would not let us use Sage for non-publics in the 80s (in case someone could get to the code and used it fraudulently - I ask you), and the other is manpower planning - at one time 18 month wait for AFT or OCU, in the 60s shortage of navs - how I ended up on 360! You would not think it was that difficult and similar sized civilian organisations manage, you would thing the RAF could.

The lizardking - but what is the quality/value of the two they have so far enticed back?

Not a lot - according to their previous reputations!

I couldn't comment on their quality, having never flown with either of them before, but they left the force some 5 years or so ago, and a lot has changed within the jet since then, not beyond the wit of man to catch up though. The point is they haven't really solved anything and seem to be doing square root of cock all about securing the necessary crews till the end. I assume that they believe all the remaining navs will simply stag on 'til the death of the jet and then accept the lack of available cockpits/jobs for them beyond...Still we can't be sure nav won't be getting FRI's ' i'd rather put pilots in the back' not my words, the words of CAS! Im not paraphrasing either, i was there he said it.

"Our two weapons are fear and surprise....and ruthless efficiency..."

tlk,

That's not the first time I've heard that solution postulated, but of course the RAF isn't short of GR4 back seaters - officially!!!

With a possible new task of bombing Syria, who would now bet on the OSD for the GR4?

If I was a serving two-winged master race officer and they tried to put me in the back seat of a Tornado I'd go sick big time!

A bloke in the pub told me that ABMers are making a pitch for seats on the P8. The arguement is sound....they are used to controlling 500nm squared of airspace with lots of ac and other things to control. Thus 1 sub or a couple of ships to sort out in a 100nm squared box will be easy. And they are used to US ac.

Sounds like a plan.

Not a problem with ABMers doing this as long as they do a recognised aircrew course to get the required skills - I know, we could call it Nav School and AEELS! :ugh:

Interestingly thoughts reported of CAS from thelizardking. Why hasn't he used pilots as loadies as well? In fact let's make everyone pilots, eh? :rolleyes:

LJ

Absolutely no reason why not Phoney T, they would need to demonstrate the suitable aptitude and learn all the skills required though...

That would require taking the appropriate tests at OASC, passing ITC and Professional Aircrew training, not all aircraft are flying offices :ok:

LJ, aren't they already trying that with Drone Drivers, pilots replacing pilots?

Too late Beags, we're already there! Not sure if you are aware but all sqn ldr aircrew and PAS flt lt's have received extensions of service to age 60. Urgent UOR's are currently being staffed to enable zimmer assisted entry and exits to our front-line fleets. Boscombe Down are also working with the Av Med school to test the effects of explosive decompression on cholostomy bags.

Great film though for those of us of a certain age. :ok:

TOFO/Avtur - I'm ex 42 as well. If this all goes ahead, will there be a requirement for a new 'entertainments' branch? I think I've still got Samantha's telephone number....

:eek::eek::eek:

Ah but ah but ah but.....
 

......ping .....dit doppler low.

The blessed Samantha is well into her pensioner years - think about it. She still could be more than most of us could cope with however!!

The Ancient Mariner

Never too old...(for a flt eng)!

At ISK, whenever I visited 42(R), the giant coffee table brought back stirring memories, since it had served so well as the stage, and still had Samantha's stilleto marks on it.:E

I wonder where it ended up.

I also wonder how many on 42(R) (1992-2010) were completely ignorant of it's chequered history.