Winnerhofer, I commend Trumpet_trousers for the civility of his response to you, having just lost some very close colleagues in this tragedy.

AD&S has committed to the maximum transparency of its accident inquiry, so might I ask that you refrain from any further contribution to this thread and that you wait for the actual cause to be identified, rather than posting further ill-founded speculation.

Spanish reaction to air accidents
 

Apart from the tragic loss of life, one [though only one] of the most striking element of this accident from the point of view of non-professionals resident in Spain, was the rhetoric of the Spanish government.

Everyone from PM Rajoy down stressed the vital importance of a thorough, reliable, rapid and open investigation with the results of this investigation to be published. And, though this was not stated explicitly, these results to be acted on.

For those of us obliged by geography to rely on Spanish actions in aviation matters, the words ring very hollow indeed in the light of the continued Spanish refusal to acknowledge, still less act upon the recommendations of the Irish Air Accident investigation into the fatal accident in Cork a few years ago where the failures of the Spanish authorities to control companies and pilots under their jurisdiction was central to the deaths involved.

Sadly for my own personal safety outlook at least, I for one am far more inclined to believe actual continued historical Spanish lethargy above Spanish political rhetoric.

(I would have much preferred to post this on the main boards rather than on the frankly obscure "Military aviation aircrew" boards, ¡ but the main boards have been locked on this topic !)

Big Frank
 

There are elections imminent in Spain.... make of that what you will.

Beagle, I fully agree with your remark but I suspect there are a host of people sitting on the sidelines biting there tongues out of respect for TT and his request.

Winnerhofer, you keep quoting in French, here is a good old RAF one for you, you need to take your agenda and bog off elsewhere.

An A400m test flight from Toulouse into Seville will be on finals in the next couple of minutes.

Re A400M crash, dartmoorman
 

Actually, just for the sake of clarity, the A400M fuselage is made of aluminium, which appears to have been totally consumed by fire. The composite wings and tailplane appear to have resisted slightly better. In any case, it'll be a few months before the accident investigation can tell us anything about the crash survivability aspect.

It is in any case a sad day for us and a reminder we still have a lot to learn to make flying safer.

AFP: SEVILLE, Spain — Airbus on Tuesday carried out the first test flight of a new A400M since one of the military transport planes crashed in Spain over the weekend, killing four people............

Onlookers and journalists applauded as the huge transport plane landed at Seville airport at 4:35 p.m (1435 GMT) after doing a loop above the runway.......

:eek::eek:

Would love to have seen that.

Suspect it is a translation of 'Orbit'
KB

Surely there must be some early facts and theories by now? Yes I know there is an investigation going on, and my deepest respect to all involved.

Was there an uncommanded engine roll back?

Report of difficulty extracting data from flight recorders
 

source:
Investigators Encounter Difficulty Extracting Data From A400M Flight Recorders | Defense content from Aviation Week

The recorders have been transfered to Paris. French General Bruno Caïtucoli, head of BEA's defense division, reports "technical issues in reading the system". That's using an extracting system provided by the French military Direction Générale de l'Armement.

We don't even know if the FDR, CVR, or both, are affected.

sandiego89, AD&S has committed to the maximum transparency of its accident inquiry.

So we should now wait for the actual cause to be identified, rather than encouraging people to post the sort of ill-founded speculation which frequently bedevils the Rumours and News website, when every lunatic and spotter comes up with ridiculous comment following airline accidents.

I ask this tentatively, and without wishing to arouse a storm of 'let's wait for the official report', does anyone know which crew positions survived (e.g. pilot in command and co-pilot, or another crew combination).

The reports of the local farmer(s) helping those that survived escape seems to indicate that they exited via the cockpit windows, that would suggest cockpit crew. I see now that Aviation Week says otherwise, so it looks like the previous report I saw was inaccurate in this respect or that I misinterpreted it.

Very sad event.

Memorial service
 

Lovely memorial service yesterday evening in Seville Cathedral, a fitting send off for the 4 guys. It was also nice to see so many friends and colleagues who were flown down from Toulouse on a company A350 especially for the service.

JN
 

Spain withdraws permit for Airbus A400M test flights

MADRID (AP) -- Spain has withdrawn its permission for test flights of Airbus A400M planes still in production until an investigation determines the cause of a crash last weekend near the southern city of Seville that killed two pilots and two flight test engineers, the defense minister said Tuesday.

Defense Minister Pedro Morenes said all precautions must be taken. "It's not a good idea for those planes in the production phase and about to do tests to fly without knowing what really happened with the (crashed) plane," he said on Onda Cero radio. Morenes said the permits were being temporarily removed by Spain's National Institute for Aerospace Technique, which means that planes in the final stages of assembly in Seville will not be able to carry out test flights.

An Airbus statement said it was too early to say how this would affect the delivery schedule for the planes. "We are working very closely with the military authorities as well as our customers to manage this situation," the statement said.........

The southern Andalusian justice department in Seville said the judge in charge of the crash probe, Ana Rosa Curra, had placed a secrecy order on investigations, meaning no details would be released officially for the time being.

Despite the problems, Airbus said it successfully conducted a test flight Tuesday of a similar model to the one that crashed. The plane flew from Toulouse, France and landed safely at Seville about two hours later, the company said. The Spanish withdrawal of flight permission only affects A400Ms that are destined for delivery to customers, not Tuesday's test flight, which is a plane that belongs to Airbus itself as one of its five test planes, according an Airbus official who was not authorized to speak publicly because of company protocol.........

Could this possibly be another case of Superabsorbant Polymer migration from a blown filter monitor element on fuel bowser truck? It fits the pattern.

So glad to hear that TT.