StO, your opinion or that of your knockers?:}

Shadwell the old wrote: Ah yes, the old kipper fleet nonsense of backend 'captains'....:rolleyes: Whenever they turned up on other fleets and were asked in what they'd previously flown (note that only the two wing master race actually 'fly' aircraft, Shadwell, half-wingers do not), they'd never say "I was on Nimrods" - it was always "I was a Nimrod 'captain'".....:uhoh:

A Vulcan chum of mine had been unfortunate enough to have been on Nimrods and was very glad to have escaped. He told me how one miserable wet and claggy night they were trying to get back in to Kinloss and had gone around from the first approach at DH...then they tried another and had to go around a second time. As they were climbing away, up came the ar$end 'captain' on the intercom, some wireless operator or sextant-monkey, I gather, who announced "Pilot, can't you go a bit lower next time?"....

Wherupon the First Pilot handed over control to the co-pilot, unstrapped and went aft... "All yours then, Captain!", he announced and went to make himself a coffee.

They diverted!

Settle Shadwell.....
 

.....settle - you may be in danger of "over-egging the pudding" (if I may risk mixing metaphors). Yes we are wonderful chaps but the likes of Beagle are unconvincible. Save your breath.

I always remember the utterly, utterly lovely young lady I was talking to at the RAF reception at the Tronno airshow. We were getting on famously until no6 of the Thunderbirds eased in
"Hi I'm with the Thunderbirds" Pauses for "OMG I'm yours."
(I of course didn't exist).

Her response "The who??" made me explode with laughter pick her up whirl around give her a great big kiss and put back down
"You, sweetheart, have just made my day"

He slunk away not seen again for the rest of the evening.

FJ pukes? Huh!!

The Ancient Mariner

Beags,

I was one such backend Nimrod Kapitan and I agree with you...it was nonsense. It was also trivial, as everybody knew what their jobs were and got on with them, be that Tac Nav, P1, Lead Dry, lead wet whatever.

See good crews and good aircrew understood the name of the game was to be a team...and by large 95% of kipper fleet were very very good at being a team.

Of course, all fleets had their dodgy 5% (you know, the guys who could not quite cut it), but on Nimrods, these chaps, whatever their brevet, would not have got the captaincy gig.

Which is why your story - as oft repeated as it is - is bollocks.

PS not saying it didn't happen - it probably happened a thousand times...but not from the captain...from every other outspoken ****er on the crew. And if the pilot bit...more fool him.
PPS That bolded bit alone gives the game away.

This conversation has drifted from "all but dropping the weapon" on hostile forces to "all but dropping the hammer" on various pilot fans and groupies.

Some may wish to mark on top of the buoy and stabilize the plot! :}
(Plot error can lead to not hitting the target, be it Sub or Sheila).

TOFO, I assure you that it was 100% true.

Beags

That statement alone shows that your story is utter bo****ks

Perhaps
a) your 'Vulcan chum' couldn't make it on Nimrods and had to move to a less demanding role, hence his vitriol and spreading of malicious rumours

or

b) he was having you on

or most likely

c) both a and b

I ask you, how could anyone want to escape from Nimrods?:E:E

Tourist has my support in his mutterings: no aluminium death-tube driver ever has a valid response when it is pointed out that you all look the same on the end of a rescue hoist :p

As for back seat captains, we had the same issue in the ASW game, but it was never a problem that I came across. Except 2/3rds of the way across from the South Island to the North to spend a night ashore at RNZAF Ohakea when the boss didn't like the look of the swell and ordered a return to mother. He was the CO, but sitting in the back narrowed his view on what was important in life!



This thread title obviously confuses, since those of us who played would see it as a reference to "the" weapon, whereas I suspect it was intended to be about dropping "a" weapon? Thus a difference of replies depending on the mindset of the poster :hmm:

Quoting an Army song;


"The wings on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round.


The wings on the bus go round and round. ALL f#^king day long"

Nimbev

Isn't "couldn't make it on Nimrods" just a nice way of saying "chopped"?

You know, as in "Algy is a lovely chap Biggles, but from what I've seen of his flying skill, he couldn't even make it on Nimrod!"

Shadwell
I'm considering trialling "I'm a Nimrod AEO" as a chat up line, but I'm concerned that I'll be asked where I've left my gut for the evening and how I removed the smell of wee.

Rossian - many of us are familiar with the Toronto airshow but I guess with your crew, you meant it was a case of volunteering to participate in the 'Tranny' airshow?

;)

Flew with some great non pilot captains who when the chips were down just said get us home you guys at the front, no questions on anything we did cos when it came to flying we were the boys, when it came to tactics they were.

Well put, feringeer.

Unfortunately, BEAgle is off on his hobby horse AGAIN, and won't listen, and Tourist's only interest in aviation is pulling birds.

erm.....it's not my only interest, just the main one.....

Freg, indeed. Without a tac display, and hurtling around a mad trap at night would stretch any pilot captain.

On an aluminium pursuit ship it may well have a captain and a GIB, but even BEagle must admit that opcon in a Vulcan would swop from front to back throughout the sortie. The only crew member that only had an advisory roll was the copilot.

I know BEagle could argue that the captain could ignore the 'advice' but so to do would jeopardise the mission. As an aside, I once ordered an Air Cmdr, later CDS, who complied with my instruction and post-flight debriefed my captain that I had given the order prematurely.

For Party Animal...
 

.....I was trying to phoneticise the locals' pronunciation of the name of that fair city. It seemed to be deemed a bit naff to go for "Tor-on-to" 3 syllables with even stress - it had to be "Tronno" with 2 syllables.

That all said this is a classical Pprune thread drift. Maybe we should reset the plot as per LW50's suggestion or go off task and have a couple of beers in the Scruffs.

The Ancient Mariner

I'll buy

Pontius Navigator alleged: Nope. Of course guidance came from the lower deck at times and most IP-to-release and visual bombing was conducted by the co-pilot. But never at any time was 'opcon' ever removed from the Captain.

For example, during fighter affil., fishpool information from the Nav Radar, RWR information from the AEO and visual information from the non-flying pilot was passed to the pilot flying, to enable the threat to be honoured, but the Captain always made the decisions.

I always thought that FJ mates were very restrained at air show parties when invaded by a Bandar-log of teenage plastic sergeants from the kipper fleet, banging on about how wunnerful they all were and how FJ flying was sooo inferior. "Why do you put up with such utter BS", I asked an F-4 mate once. "They don't know any better - but we do", was the reply.

I'd like to suggest - and hope - BEagle that your appreciation for what we all did is actually universal and your tales are purely banter. Like others have said, some suited the Nimrod's unique role, stresses and team-led ways of working whereas for others the system helped them find a better place. There was certainly no tolerance for the type of you talk you repeated in the early-2000s era.




Going back to the topic, does helping someone else drop their weapon count?

It's convenient to have a story for every situation.

RAF Finningley about 20 years ago, since you obviously doubt me, westie....:rolleyes: