Holy crap, that was low! :eek: (1:30 onwards for those who wish to fast forward...)

-RP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3yV7pL1p24

I had the pleasure of flying many times with Tommy, after that incident while going through nav training at 6FTS. He always wanted to bounce his mates farm even though it was no where near my chosen route. After a few trips, i learnt to incorporate the farm into the first leg - he was happy and i got an easy time.

Naughty.

OK, what happened to the 'guilty basta*d'. sorry, the accused pilot once he landed?

That was f'in fantastic, waited ages to see that :D

Using a very crude estimate;
Length of F4 fuse = 58 feet 3 inches.
Number of apparent fuselage lengths between underside of jet and ground (not taking into account viewing angle etc) seems to be approximately 3 to 4 Phantoms worth.
Therefore, altitude of number two at pull-up with burner on... between 175 and 233 feet?
Even two Phantom's worth is around 120 feet.
If so, still pretty low for such a big, loud jet...

Reminds me of the Hunter/Tower Bridge incident - if only there was a video of that.

Hunter/Tower Bridge
 

anybody know what the Hunter pilot - Flt Lt Alan Pollock - went on to do post-RAF following his "medical discharge"? If he's still with us he'd be about 80 today.

Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker...ridge_incident

Most pilots who flew cold war era fast jets will have found themselves at some point in heavy buffet and wing rock. If you were sensible it occurred at a height from which you could recover or if lacking situational awareness you were at low level pulling too hard somewhere over Labrador or a remote bit of Germany and tent pegged.

Cranwell and Shoreham very similar events, one a lucky escape the other not.

Agreed, Bigpants!

That link posted by Wensleydale isn't the version which was shown on the Flying Supervisors' course - which showed the jet rounding Whittle Hall in wing rock, descending with full AB and nearly buying the farm. It was calculated that he bottomed out at 72' agl before climbing away...:eek:

It was certainly a most interesting day to graduate. IIRC, it was the 3rd pass - the one Beagle describes above - which took most of the hats off & blew a couple of people (me included) out of line. Someone did say that one chap was blown off his feet but I didn't see that.

Our gallant Flight Sergeant had to invent a wonderful new dill move called "re-positioning the parade commander's (Mark someone?) hat on his head". He slammed it on so hard it covered said parade commander's eyes and I had to offer verbal commands of "left a bit, right a bit" to him as we slow-marched off so he could walk up the steps.

Everyone was in fits of laughter but I don't think Tommy was laughing when he landed. The Reviewing Officer (can't remember his name?) stormed off the parade ground and hit the phone - the story goes that the Conningsby Staish was waiting for Tommy when he landed and that - as they say - was the end of that! I got to Finningley a few months later and Tommy was OC LLTS. Jolly nice chap too - though the flypast was never-ever mentioned.

I think you;ll find he was OC LLADTS (JPs) at Finningley not LLTS.

I bow to your superior knowledge - it was 30 odd years ago & my memory is not nearly as good as.........

I think it was recklessly irresponsible, we just didn't see it that way in the 80s.

How many pointless funerals back then? In my 23 years I stood looking at a coffin 18 times; 16 of those had been 'own goals' with the other 2 having been shot down.

In this situation is the Nav as culpable as the pilot?

Tashengurt wrote: No stick = no vote!

IIRC the Nav was the Auth for that sortie.

I missed seeing the action on the day as I was clearing in Clothing Stores prior to posting on promotion as a fast-jet SEngO - but I could recognize the noise inside the East Camp building as coming from a fast-jet flying way too low above inhabited buildings.

I subsequently saw the video showing the more dangerous situation that BEagle referred to whilst attending the Flying Supervisors Course at MOD Inspectorate of Flight Safety (RAF) a few months later. When I joined the staff of MOD IFS (RAF) 3 years later, it was still being shown as an example of irresponsible behavior. Selection of full burner certainly seemed to make the difference between hitting CHOM / the Parade Square or not and it was an extremely close thing - sinking lower than the example in the video posted here.

Having been a JEngO in RAFG - and an OC Armament on a number of Akrotiri APCs - I had seen a number of Phantom last flight on sqn / last flight of career beat-ups over HAS sites / dispersals - all were executed in an exciting and competent manner !

...and I take it the third pass video is nowhere to be found on the interweb?

I think it was part of a Board of / Unit Inquiry proceedings on a VHS tape - I don't know the origin of it. In almost 30 years I have never seen it outside of MOD IFS (RAF).

Nice beat up in the '97 IOT' YouTube link, but didn't look very dangerous to me- although never flown a Phantom..:{

Add me to the list of folk keen to see the 'other' footage.

'ihoharv' inquired:
AFAIK 'Alan Pollock' went to RAAF Pearce to become a QFI with the RAAF subsequently.

IN HIS OWN WORDS: http://www.rafjever.org/4sqnper004.htm
&
http://www.rafjever.org/pictures-4/4sqnpic424.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...D.gif~original

Immediately after the parade flustered directing staff were running around asking if any of our parents or visitors had taken video of the flypast.

Not so. Al never flew again. He ran an import/export business for many years. Yes, he's still alive, and living in southern England.

He's still alive and kicking and on a Facebook group that I'm a member of.

I saw its when at IFS and it was used in FS lectures. Never seen it anywhere else. After 30 years, perhaps it might be released as many other official 'documents' are.

I believe on of the navs was Darryl Rodgers (sic) OC Ops design RAF Leuchars who had 6 months loss of seniority.

For the uninitiated amongst us, was the problem that he pulled up from low level (below the briefed altitude say) with full burner on and blew off some hats, or that he was too low on the flypast and had to use full burner to stop himself being spread all over the parade ground?

T1, I'll stick my neck out and say both. Ultimately flying indiscipline. Many of us have been there, few have been seen on video. Today you might say few are not on video.

Bit of thread drift but I did manage to invert the beer tent at San Nicole with wing-tip jobbers in the '80s. Lusty also had to check the mainmast aerials after my last disembarkment. Fortunately no vid! There was, however HUD film of us at 5-15' on the attack run into Stanley on 1st May '82. Ahh, swing the lamp!

Off to polish me Tiger.

Mog

I'm guessing you knocked a few hats off too?

Probably one of the lesser quoted effects of HE, but I guess Mog will have knocked a few hats off.

Cash47 says that immediately after, flustered DS were rushing around asking for photo/video footage:


1. No we were not (rushing around or flustered).
2. Heads down - didn't see nothing my lud...............:mad:

Mogwi
 

Hello Mogwi - could you elaborate about the HUD height and how it was calibrated to the aircraft - i.e. was it from the bottom of the gun packs and only when S and L? (RadAlt)
or was it Barometric but imprecise?

The main reason I ask is obviously lower the better in that situation but curious as how you know how far to roll at such a low height.

Also how did that compare to 'normal training' heights you were used to?

Thanks

Bladdered, I am sure the bulk of the DS did exactly as you say. Certainly it would be my reaction 30 years on. However, my flight were approached and asked the question.

We covered this on the Flying Supervisors Course at Bentley Priory, along with Bud Holland and the Puma that run out of fuel and landed on a parade square in the middle of a parade somewhere in Europe.

Twas a long time ago and I'm sure there are better informed than me out there, but I seem to recall the root cause was thought to be a badly planned display, requiring said infringer to over cook a turn or something. The guy who briefed us seemed to think the pilot did a good job not parking it in CHOM.

more than happy to be flamed if wrong...just reporting what I recall for from a very good course, with a lot of "hidden insights" 15 years ago.

If it is the Mogwi that I am thinking off, I was stood as a young Middy on the port sponson on Ark Royal in about 1987/8 during his final flight and he was half way between the sponson and the water with a huge rooster tail of water following behind. 5-10 feet my estimate and doing about 300 knots!!

:eek:

Hi Shaft,

As I recall, the radio altimeter aerial was pretty much under the cockpit, so a foot or so above the bottom of the gunpods. Don't know if it was calibrated to take account of this but then those sort of heights were probably not in the spec! Normal training heights for the RN were down to 50' over the sea but normally restricted to 250' over land and roll restriction was purely eyeball! The radalt obviously over-read when not in level flight.

There was also bar alt in the HUD but that relied on the correct/accurate setting to give true height and was only really used for ATC purposes.

I remember my late father (ex Seafire driver) telling me that the lowest safe height to fly was half your wingspan, so you could always get 90 degrees of bank!

Don't know about affect on hats, but it had an effect on my long-johns!

Hi Widge,

Yes, tactically unsound but great fun! You could see the "snail trail" from about 30 miles from height, on a good day. Same applies to helos flown "tactically" over water, as I once found to my advantage!

Mog

Mog,
Indeed - which is why we did an overwater demo on the course. Flying at 20 ft over the water gains you very little except a wake - the same, of course, over dust, sand and snow...The more time you spend avoiding hitting the ground, the less time you've got to look for other threats. The time for 10-20ft is over a desert locked up by an RF SAM (whether the enemy's or, indeed, your own....).

I think the Cranwell flypast has been somewhat relegated in recent years on the FSS by a certain Typhoon incident. Most amusingly, I was on the FSS with the said pilot and his "version of events" was somewhat different to the Chain of Command's....clearly, the D Staff hadn't all been briefed as there were a few awkward shuffles when the presenter started with "let me tell you what this muppet did...." (or words to that effect...).