The whole "under control" statement give way to an underlining bias that there is some controlling authority in the free world.

Something which couldn't be further from the truth.

sure there is a controlling authority and this world is far from free

New World Order, Bilderbergers, Illuminati, Freemasons, Bankers.

These people have far more power than voters do.

AreOut,

Speak for yourself!

I am not subject to any "controlling authority" and my life is as free as one could possibly expect in a society that protects the weak and vulnerable and prevents mob rule and war lord rule.

Eclectic - you forgot Prince Phillip and Large Green Lizards.......... :cool::cool:

Que the x files theme. Well I suppose if you integrate across the whole planet. But here in the west, just how much freedom does one want?

But then, philosophically, what is freedom?

It was never about control of the region, who cares about that, but NATO was motivated to prevent its perception of atrocities committed by Serbs against the civilians of Bosnia-Herzegovina and Kosovo. Milosevic played the perfect villain.

In retrospect, after 9/11, I often wonder if I was fighting on the right side. The Serbs, after all, had centuries of experience in this fight. But their downfall was their brutality as evidenced by Srbrenica and the shelling of Sarajevo. That set them up as evil in the perception of the West, which time after time demonstrates its short memory.

Experiences of the past 15 years puts me now fairly solidly on the side of the Serbs, should the issue re-emerge..

Sweating and looks tense, ill.
 

Putin. Surely someone's got more about it? Whats going on?

Buster ... I hear that Putin has been catching a few waves down under at Coffs Harbour :}

He might do a Harold Holt then Coff....:ooh:

"But their downfall was their brutality as evidenced by Srbrenica and the shelling of Sarajevo. "

I agree that Serbs on whole have made the most war crimes, but they weren't alone.

Also there were fights and war crimes between Muslims and Croats, it would be silly accusing Serbs for that too.

And jihadists in Bosnia have been doing the same to Serbs as ISIS is doing today to ordinary people of Syria&Iraq, I don't justify reaction of Serbs but I partially understand it.

proone!!!
<<... my life is as free as one could possibly expect in a society that protects the weak and vulnerable and prevents mob rule and war lord rule.>>
er, the Taliban got the warlords under control in Afghanistan and successfully imposed law and order - the west restored the previous chaos.
Then there is the debacle in Libya - oh, and Iraq.
Serbia was the most progressive of the newly independent countries after the collapse of the Soviet Union but was just about bombed back into the stone age by the west.
I won't go into the failed states in Africa as a result of the Europeans being removed from power too precipitously.
Has it not dawned on you that anything that has tried to coalesce into a functional, sovereign nation state since 1933 has been crushed/multicultured/economically strangled?

since 1933? :-) oh dear.....

Freedom is messy, dictatorship may bring order ... but at what cost?

Walter, are you advocating the return of dictatorships just because the transition period is messy?

Europe / The West went through a lot of messy and blood to get where we are today. One cannot expect other cultures/nations to change bloodlessly, nor overnight.

As usual, every one has a point, but as usual then countered by keeping on going too far down a dark path. The answer is an amalgamation, or convolution of methods with the right ones for the right time.

Its a balance to get things right, sometimes you stuff up. There is no shortage of examples in the gulf states that are at various stages of social evolution, in fact could extend that geographically.

The dictatorship question is an old one, yes they can be very efficient, but thy can also be extremely bad. Democracy and freedom can be just as bad if thrust upon a society to early, hell it barely functions in ones that are ready for it.:p

Somebody's going to quote it, so..."It has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those others that have been tried from time to time" Churchill, 11 Nov 47.

Having invented democracy, the Ancient Greeks realised its limitations, especially in times of crisis. They were able to suspend democracy and appoint an absolute dictator, by election, on a rolling yearly basis, until the crisis was over.

Just to draw a very logical conclusion: Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro) was bombed because of atrocities they committed after the beginning of the bombing.:yuk: