F3, never really thought about the link between music and maths but it is an interesting idea, have you got any examples of it if you don't mind.

Shaft - there's a whole host of reasons for this. Ever declining numbers of practicals in school science. Ever more boring practicals. School workshops now being Design and Technology where they all do arty images for marketing furniture rather than a year carving wood & cutting metal.

At one school, my teaching colleague had helped design the brakes on Concorde, and our technician had built sonar systems for Marconi and designed some of the largest chimneys in Europe. We did proper practical work - interesting, new, fun stuff. We entered one competition for earthquake-resistant buildings. At lunchtime the Judging Professor took us into his Civil Engineering department and told us our 4th years (Grade 10) had made better designs than his Second Year Honours students.

I agree with your sentiments but when I was a yoof with a MkII Escort it took me a morning to whip the head off, decoke it and rebuild it. Now I open the bonnet on my German behemoth and am met by black boxes and acres of plastic. You can't do anything on a car these days except change the oil and maybe the brake pads because you need a box of tricks to plug into it to analyse what is wrong.

Having said that I wouldn't want to go back to the performance and reliability of a MkII Escort.

I am in awe.

Thing, you'd be surprised but you get plenty of practice fixing the german metal, not the machines they once were. I have it on good authority mk1 and 2 Escorts can be rebuilt with new shells but old vin plates. But stuffed with the Demon Tweeks catalogue goodies. So much more interesting than most new cars.

When a serving Head, I introduced whole-class (no choice) violin teaching to my 6 year olds. It was awful! But the ones who were still playing by choice 4 and a half years later in Year 6- wow! They were invariably achievers, with the odd few who were not being able to be very proud of their music. I had to pull some dirty strokes to fund it, but stuck with it. I am not a musician, but I was clever in who I listened to and who I trusted.

Our peripatetic teachers reckoned we had a better orchestra (about 40 strong) than any of the secondary schools she visited.

We used a drumming group to radically alter the behaviours of a number of nutters too.

Sorry for the drift.

CG

I agree CG. Music should always be the pre-eminent Arts Subject. And I'm no musician either.

Thing
I'm 624th from the left, 263 rows back, next to the girl with the 42DD's and a thin T-shirt ;)

Blocked on copywrite grounds.

CG: whole class drumming in primary on Djenga drums is big here in Lincs. On the question of nutters and drums, the two are inseperable.

More bad news regarding the teaching profession:

BBC News - Moray Council warns of teacher shortages

Didn't you get cold, what with the thin t shirt an' all?;)

CG

Two observations, both off topic.

One of my best men at Bawtry had a Maths/Music degree.

Mathematicians make very good bell-ringers, because advanced ringing is all about pattern recognition and variation.

Earmuffs! 42DD earmuffs ;)

The first, and most important, lesson is that no education system can be better than the quality of its teachers.
The second lesson of world class education systems is that they devolve as much power as possible to the front line.
We know that among undergraduates considering teaching, fear of bad behaviour and violence is the most common reason for choosing an alternative career.

This isn't me repeating myself, it's the summary of a Government report from 2010 signed by DC and NC.

But it isn't what happens!

Despite their obsession with them, the Government, DfE, etc deliberately fail to set targets for things they know very well they can't achieve. All these words are just that, nothing but words.
500 Schools in England and Wales do not have a single physics teacher. 1/3 of physics lessons are not taken by physicists. The Government is offering golden hellos of £25,000, and this year's recruitment to teacher training is....67% of target. Of course there isn't an official target, but that number comes from the requirement on the outsourced recruiters.

And of course, the ones that are being recruited are replacing people retiring . Experience is dropping faster than a Led Zeppelin.
Now, what's the experience picture in other occupations like?

We need more teachers, and we need them now | Education | The Guardian

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...29/CM-7980.pdf

I'm here all day!
since 57cm of snow fell last night, the blizzard has forced all the plows of the road, and the RCMP advice is...

RCMP PEI Traffic @RCMPPEITraffic · 1h 1 hour ago
Go ahead..hit that SNOOZE BUTTON. You have our permission. Roll over stay in the bed it's not pretty out here. It's a BLIZZARD. Cst. Parsons
We are off the road folks, can't get through the snow... PLEASE DO NOT Venture outside at this time until conditions improve.

Saintsman


What you have described in Post#10 could be applied almost equally to instructors teaching ab-initio Integrated CPL students who progress into the R/H seats of modern electric jets.

In retirement I am doing supply. (I don't need the money!) Thursday, it's Physics- I have an OU Physics degree. Be interesting how it develops. I'd rather like 8-10 hours a fortnight JUST on Physics. We'll see!

CG

You'll be fine. I also have an OU Physics degree!
Be very interested in your impressions.

When doing ATPL Groundschool (BGS) or any of my flying training I've specifically sought out either the ex military or very experienced instructors. When I chose to do something a little more useful with hour building I did an IMC rating with an instructor who had c 19,000 hours teaching mainly in light aircraft, and CPL/ME/IR wise I found just the man - again very experienced and ex RAF.

Downsides to this approach are a few old school style bollockings but I learnt from those errors :ok:

When being taught or instructed by such people the quality and quantity of knowledge seems to occur by osmosis as much as anything else.

So to answer the OP -I think it literally is priceless.

Old school type bollockings!

Yes, a well-deserved one at RAF Leeming for "quitting my post" in 1964, towards the scheduled end of a very boring night flying session in the most gin-clear conditions of high summer. My assessment, based on not a lot of experience, was that all would be well.

The weather was fine, the aircraft landed safely, no diversions ........... the standing interview without coffee was with my boss. The duty observer had, quite rightly, reported me.

Never, ever, again.

Experience.