I hope this avoids settling into prolonged national flag waving. Just sayin'.

One thing nobody here has mentioned is that if the USAF had bought the KC-30 it was to be built in the US by Northrup.

Re settling into flagwaving...
 

...hasn't it settled down to that already?:confused:

A bit of damping re the comment quoting "ex military" types: I'd rather hear it from the Aussies and Italians who are currently going to war with the KC30 and KC767, respectively. Somehow I suppose they're both pretty good at what they were designed for.

Which brings us to the heart of the matter: If Boeing couldn't hit the Air Force spec with their new KC46, it's likely because the spec just didn't fit to the existing aircraft at all. Whatever it was - flow rates, wiring standards, issues not related to the tanker mission - probably cought them unprepared; in other words, I think the whole horror is more of a project-management than a quality issue. We'll probably see in 20 years how the 46 performed in real life.

True. Until they pulled out of the program and Airbus tried going it alone.

Boeing KC-46A Tanker Passes More Tests
 

A small update on the KC-46 program.

Boeing KC-46A Tanker Passes More Tests (NYSE: BA) - 24/7 Wall St.

From that article: “This tanker will be able to refuel any fixed wing or helicopter in the DoD fleet, while being able to take on fuel itself.”

That was the first I had heard about helicopters. Really? I would imagine a MH-60 would be too slow, or there would be too much wake with the 46 that slow and dirty?

KC-46A refuelling an MH-60 or a CH-47? Those'd be photos I'd like to see!

:ok: if they really can though!

And A400M off the wing pods for interoperability....

:}

KC-46 has centerline hose/dorgue, so wing pods are not required for A400M interoperability.

And that statement about KC-46A being able to refuel helos sounds kinda unlikely to me. I think the guy quoted in the article misspoke.

The Boeing press release mentions upcoming tests will include fuel offload to six different aircraft:
F-16
F/A-18
C-17
A-10
AV-8B
another KC-46
No mention of helos (a bit surprised by the A-10 since the USAF seems to be in a hurry to mothball that fleet)

The KC-46A contract was written up well before USAF decided to retire the A-10 fleet. It's probably easier and cheaper to just do the testing than change the contract. Plus, it looks like Congress is going to be successful in delaying that retirement.

Probably referring to C/MV-22 operations

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...pspsw3sfbg.jpg

Me too. Seems most unlikely.

Embraer claim that their KC-390 will be the first jet powered tanker able to refuel rotary wing receivers.

Thanks Ken, I really enjoy when you teach me stuff about AAR.

You're welcome, but what makes you assume I was teaching "stuff about AAR"?

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...ker-wi-418170/

Japanese choose KC-46 - given the history, not a huge surprise?

Not a surprise given that they already operate the KC-767....... And that Airbus declined to tender for the contract......

Airbus immediately declined to participate when Japan issued its tanker request for proposals in September, saying the notice was clearly intended for the Boeing KC-46. “It would be an inappropriate use of shareholders' funds and company resources to bid on this contract and accordingly the company will not be competing,” Airbus said at the time.

Boeing KC-46 Tanker Completes First Air Refueling

The first fuel transfer from a Boeing KC-46A tanker to a receiver aircraft was completed on Jan 24, marking a key step towards fulfilling requirements for the U.S. Air Force’s Milestone C decision covering low rate initial production of the first batch of tankers.

The contact was made between EMD-2, the first fully configured KC-46A test aircraft, and an F-16C from the Edwards AFB, California-based 416th Flight Test Squadron over the shores of southern Washington and northern Oregon. Further flights were also conducted with the tanker formating with an Air Force C-17 from nearby McChord AFB.

Follow-on testing is planned for the coming weeks including fuel transfers to a C-17, A-10, F/A-18 and AV-8B, while the KC-46A will also take fuel from a KC-10. The current test effort, which is expected to include boom compatibility checks on Jan 25, has required intensive co-ordination between Boeing and the Air Force with combined operation of the manufacturer’s chase and safety T-33 and T-38 flight test aircraft with additional KC-135 tanker support from the Air Force.

The Air Force says the test with the F-16C "fulfilled the requirement to connect to a light/fast receiver. The remaining tests with the boom will use an A-10 Thunderbolt II as the light/slow receiver and a C-17 as the heavy receiver. Flight tests employing the centerline drogue system and wing aerial refueling pods will use an F/A-18 Hornet as the light/fast receiver and an AV-8B Harrier as a light/slow receiver." The KC-46A will also have to demonstrate its receiver capability by taking fuel from a KC-10 Extender, it adds...............

Test assets at Joint Base Lewis-Mchord
 

Last October: Air Force fighter jets visit JBLM to help test new Boeing tanker | The News Tribune

JBLM is near Tacoma Washington

First contact: C-17
 

KC-46 has begun aerial refuel testing of C-17 Globemaster III.

http://www.boeingimages.com/Docs/BOE...4/BI233560.jpg

Kinda like a Great Dane making love to a Beagle......

Successful?

Gee, are you suggesting the USAF Have been sold a pup?......

Really, Ken...

http://www.bythefibreside.com/wp-con...ux_shopped.jpg

http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/FY2015/pdf/af/2015kc-46a.pdf

Spinless coverage from DOT&E. Interesting read.

refuel F/A-18 and Farnborough
 

KC-46 tanker successfully refuels F/A-18

"- EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. -- A U.S. Air Force and Boeing aircrew aboard the KC-46 tanker successfully refueled an F/A-18 fighter jet in flight Feb. 10.

The air refueling was the program's first using the KC-46's hose and drogue system. It took place in the skies over Washington state.

According to Boeing, the flight lasted more than four hours and the tanker's air refueling operator successfully transferred fuel to the F/A-18 at 20,000 feet."

Also what are the odds that Boeing will bring their KC-46 to Farnborough this summer?

cheers

Boeing racing clock to deliver 18 KC-46 tankers by next August

The narrow window for Boeing to deliver 18 operational KC-46A Pegasus tankers to the US Air Force by August 2017 includes little to no room for error and a series of tests and events must go right to achieve that significant contractual milestone.

The $5 billion development programme is about eight months behind its original schedule after facing a number of setbacks, but company officials have committed to achieving the “required assets available” milestone, meaning 18 jets delivered to two air force bases between March and August next year. But while USAF officials applaud that ambitions goal, they say in an interview with Flightglobal that schedule – not cost or technical difficulties – is the next-generation tanker project’s main challenge. Even if those tankers are in place by August, Air Mobility Command (AMC) won’t have had enough time with the 767-2C-based tankers to declare initial operational capability on time.

USAF programme executive officer for tankers Gen Duke Richardson says Boeing had planned to begin delivering aircraft over 12 months starting this August but to account for delays in passing the milestone C review means 18 deliveries will be phased over six months. “[AMC commander Gen Carlton Everhart] is not going to declare it until they’re ready to take the KC-46 to war,” says Richardson. “It’s going to take them a little while to ramp up. IOC is not a contractual requirement, it’s really a warfighter requirement.”

Only two aircraft currently flying in support of FAA type certification and aerial refuelling demonstration and the first KC-46A recently passed fuel to an F-16 and F/A-18 and then received fuel from a KC-10. The developmental tanker must now refuel an AV-8B, A-10 and C-17 to satisfy a “milestone C” decision review board that had planned to convene in April, but is now tracking toward early May. Until then, the air force cannot award the first two low-rate production contracts for 7 and 12 aircraft to satisfy the required assets milestone. Boeing must also delivery enough spare parts and engines and correct any technical deficiencies revealed in ground and flight testing.

“Those must all happen by August of 2017, so there’s certainly a lot of pressure there,” says Richardson. “EMD-2 and EMD-4, by the way, are needed to get through the system verification review quickly. If we have four aircraft flying, we can burn through those reviews faster than with just two aircraft.”

The programme’s favourable contract terms mean the air force is doing everything in its power to uphold its end of the bargain by programming enough funds across its latest five-year spending plan to purchase 15 aircraft per year, with annual lots expected to be awarded each January. “Through the contract that was competed, we the government get rewarded for stability,” says Richardson. “Our best price point is actually 15 aircraft per year. Our plan is to awarded Lot 3 in January of next year.”

Col John Newberry, who took over as the air force KC-46A programme manager on 8 February, says his team is “laser-focused” on achieving milestone C and graduating from development to production. “I’m confident the programme is on the right track and we’re pressing to milestone C,” he says. Richardson says schedule issues aside, the KC-46A programme is healthy and Boeing is transparent and hasn’t “cut corners”. “That stuff looks easy, but it’s the culmination of five years-worth of effort,” he says. “It’s pretty darn challenging to have a controlled mid-air collision in flight.”

The air force will buy 94 KC-46s through fiscal year 2021 with 81 of the remaining 175-aircraft order to be furnished through the 2020s. The service will buy 42 wing-mounted aerial refuelling pod sets.

Air Force: Boeing Tanker Issue Could Delay Production Decision

WASHINGTON — An issue that prevented Boeing’s KC-46 tanker from transferring fuel to a US Air Force C-17 during a recent test could delay the start of production of the new aircraft, according to the Air Force.

During a recent test of the tanker’s refueling boom, higher than expected axial loads prevented the transfer of fuel of a C-17 transport plane, service spokesman Daryl Mayer said April 1. The boom, a rigid, telescoping tube that an operator on the tanker extends to and inserts into a receptacle on the receiving aircraft, is used to refuel most Air Force aircraft.

Boeing has a “good understanding” of the problem and is working to identify a fix, Mayer said. However, the Air Force does not yet know the schedule impact to a planned “Milestone C” decision to formally approve production of the new tanker in May, he said. “We don't yet know the schedule impact to the planned May Milestone C decision, but the problem is well understood and we don't expect an extended delay,” Mayer said.

The KC-46 successfully refueled an Air Force F-16, a much lighter aircraft than the C-17, in a previous test, Mayer noted. The tanker has also successfully transferred fuel to a Navy F/A-18 and Marine Corps Harrier, which use the aircraft’s hose-and-drogue system for refueling, he said.

Boeing spokesman William Barksdale declined to say how much the fix will cost, saying the company is "aggressively working the problem now." "We expected to find items like this in development test and we are evaluating system changes to improve boom response," Barksdale said April 1. "Over the coming weeks, we will have a better understanding of program impacts, if any. We continue to make steady progress in flight test and aircraft production, and believe we are taking the right steps to fulfill our commitments to the Air Force."

The Air Force is planning to buy 179 KC-46 tankers to recapitalize its aging tanker fleet. Boeing’s KC-46 is unique in its ability to switch between the boom and hose-and-drogue during the same mission, allowing the Air Force to refuel more aircraft more quickly.

Boeing is on tap to deliver 18 full-up KC-46s by August 2017.

Rather like the KC-10A and all A330MRTTs except the RAF's Voyager have been doing for several years then?

What does that mean in English? That Boeing are under a no-compromise obligation to deliver the aircraft by then, or that they're actually on target to do so?

Was the 'sixth generation' boom really such a smart idea, given that the KC-767 has been refuelling with the 'fifth generation' boom ever since 2007?

Meanwhile, I see that clearance is being sought to refuel US aircraft from the RAAF KC-30A....:rolleyes:

The fifth generation boom wouldn't have satisfied USAF requirements.

There were several of the USAF requirements that were less than logical. But any effort to question them was met with a 'what part of "MANDATORY" don't you understand?':uhoh:

I guess if you are posted to the "New Refueling Boom Task Force" saying "the Mk5 is fine" is very career limiting

I guess Boeing have no experience in building tankers!

KB-29, KB-50, KC-97, KC-135, KC-767J, KC-767i, B-747ARB [Iran]

But the fourth generation boom would have.

The KC-767 boom is based on the KC-135 boom. The KC-46 boom is based on the KC-10 boom. Those are very different booms. The change was required to compete with the KC-30 boom and to meet the latest operating envelope requirements imposed by USAF.

Westover Air Reserve Base being considered for KC-46A refueling jets | WWLP.com

CHICOPEE, Mass. (WWLP) – Western Massachusetts has been seeing and hearing C5 cargo jets for years, but the skies could soon get even nosier.
The Air Force is considering Westover Air Reserve Base to house new KC-46A refueling jets.The KC-46A’s would replace an aging tanker fleet and improve capacity for cargo and medical evaluation.
Lt. Col. James Bishop said the local economy would benefit, by creating new jobs for pilots and maintenance personnel. “The good news is increased activity on the base, more economic activity, the bad news, more planes, more noise,” he said.
The KC-46A’s aren’t as loud as C5’s, which we’ve all been hearing for years.
Aurora McGreevy, the owner of Aurora’s Pizza told 22News she’s ok with it, if it means more business. “I really don’t mind the noise, we have the noise going on now, so I would love to see more traffic and I’d love to see more people stopping in so I really would like it,” she said.
Westover Air Reserve Base is one of four bases the Air Force is considering for the new jets.
They’re going to take a look at several factors before making their decision, including the impact environmentally and economically.
The Airforce will decide where to base the KC-46A’s in 2017.
Residents will be able to ask questions about the jets at a public meeting. It’ll be held next Tuesday at the Castle of the Knights in Chicopee, from 5:00 to 8:00 PM.

So, will they make the 8/17 deadline or not?

Boeing says yes. USAF says maybe (probably?) not. I'm personally doubtful.

I've just read all 22 pages - great thread with some very knowledgable folk contributing - I will watch closely to see how things turn out.

KC-46 TANKER AIRCRAFT: Challenging Testing and Delivery Schedules Lie Ahead

GAO-16-346: Published: Apr 8, 2016. Publicly Released: Apr 8, 2016.

Yet more delays probable
 

Boeing’s KC-46A aerial refueling tanker program is facing another delay—of at least six months—due to technical and supply chain problems.
This recent delay may require the program to be restructured or funding to be cut, either by Congress or the Pentagon, according to a Senate aide. “Someone will have to be the bad guy,” he says. Boeing was scheduled to deliver 18 KC-46A tankers by August 2017 and has been conducting testing with three aircraft. But refueling trials on a C-17 revealed a stability issue with the boom that passes fuel between aircraft. The best chance of a solution appears to be with software fixes to the flight control surfaces on the fly-by-wire controlled boom. But a hardware solution has not been ruled out. And problems with the supply chain could delay delivery of the full set of 15 aircraft into 2018.

The Senate Appropriations Committee, which approved a draft of its fiscal 2017 defense spending bill May 26, fully supports President Barack Obama’s $2.9 billion request for the program to buy 15 tankers. But a report on the bill expresses lawmakers’ concerns about the program’s future.

For starters, 2017 was supposed to be the first year of full-rate production, with 15 aircraft, the report says. But the milestone C decision to start full production has been delayed over the course of the program, so the number of aircraft stayed the same but is now considered low-rate production, according to the report. The KC-46A has only finished 20% of its development flight test, the report says, noting the refueling boom difficulties.

The committee points out numerous delays. In addition to a 10-11 month delay to the milestone C decision, initial operational test and evaluation also slipped by 11 months, and the delivery of the first aircraft was delayed by nine months. Now, all of the milestones are supposed to occur near delivery dates spelled out in the contract, so the program has very little room to meet its August 2018 commitments.

Frank Kendall, the Pentagon’s procurement chief, has pointed to the tanker program as the poster child for fixed-price development, since the program was modifying an existing aircraft. But while the government has been shielded by increased development costs, Boeing is picking up the slack. The company has already taken at least $1.2 billion in pretax charges on the program. That figure could now climb higher.