Def Sec Speech Con Conf
 

Having watched and listened carefully to Mr Fallon's speech, I was left with senses of disbelief, incredulity, and foreboding. Reading the transcript, you could be misled into thinking that the state of our armed forces was improving, and that in the near future would be extremely robust. To quote him, 'Putin should be in no doubt that our collective defence is as strong as ever'. This comment was made as a punch line: is he from Mars? He is also delivering 'new fleets of fighters'. His delivery was akin to childlike puppetry. For God's sake, if he truly believes the words that were prepared for him, this man is not fit for his role. But I guess that he'll meet Cameron's needs.


Read the rest. Yes, there is some welcome stuff. But it was all about bandaging a mortal patient and playing, disgracefully, to a largely unsuspecting electorate. For now. IMHO that is.


And now, Cameron, proudly announces he'll send TWO more aircraft to Cyprus. The mouse is roaring.

But if you say something often enough and loud enough it makes it true. Anyway, back to Narnia for a good night's sleep for Mr Fallon.

Thing just responded to a similar point raised by me on the "Bare Bones" thread, If correct, Fallon's pants would be ablaze mid-speech.

FB:)

But every fighter crew knows they can win any war on their own ;)

Is the other an airborne spare?

According to the Togagraph No. 2 Squadron will not disband to reform on Typhoons next year in March because the Tornados are too badly needed to fight ISIL. However, the Typhoon Squadron is not going to be re-numbered, not a chance, it won't now form, apparently for another year when 2 Squadron will eventually disband. So there you go, robust defence on a shoe string! Or should that be on the hoof?!?!?:confused:

FB:)

Cuefaye, I like the point you have raised. I saw it too and was horrified. My take on it was that the Armed Forces are screwed and the polies are convinced that they can get away with talking bollocks and that the public will believe what they say. A tragic state of affairs. I think they actually believe their own crap.

Well said mate! But how do they get away with it? More to the point, how do we let them?

I read about these latest developments on Auntie Beeb's site.

2 more Tornados to deploy to Cyprus. Hooray, I thought.

II(AC) now won't disband next year but will carry on as the third Tonka squadron for another year. Hooray, I thought.

Then I thought I'd come over here and find out the truth of the matter.

What are they going to do with the "spare" Typhoons that now aren't going to form up as II(AC) at Lossiemouth? (Flog them off to Oman, I guess...)

[Be gentle with me, I am old and feeble, and cannot find my slippers]

No, it's worse than that. They think that the public will believe what they say. That's the sadness of it. Every man jack in the country knows that when a pollie opens his trap a lie comes out but they are too dumb/isolated to understand that. We know that they constantly lie, but they don't know/ignore that we know. I'm sure a lot of pollies are insane, and I don't say that in jest.

Unfortunately it is a true statement that Defence no longer wins votes in any parties minds, obviously not a view held by this forum. The reality of the last Government was a funding situation everyone in the system knew - project budgets were pushed out so far that there was a £26Bn "bulge" in future years that was never going to happen. My company was asked to delay contracts because the cash was in future years! We were then later criticised for being slow to deliver!

Sadly this had to be dealt with by someone.

Let's now hope the Politicians only commit the Military to ops that they are resourced for...:ugh:

"Putin should be in no doubt that our collective defence is as strong as ever."

He is an idiot and in my view, that's a stupid thing to say. It's provocative. You can't really blame Putin for wanting to keep the West at arms length. To everybody else, we've just come across like a bunch of war mongers.

Russia's assistance may be needed in tackling the Islamic State and alienating them is not a good idea.

So claiming that "I can take warsaw any time I like" is not a threat but "our defence is as strong as ever" is provocative?

Wow.

one is true and the other is not

Putin is a good guy, far better than our so called leaders.
Under his rule the Russian forces seem to be doing rather well.

T4,

That wasn't a threat, it was a fact. If he wanted to, he could put troops on the ground, anywhere in the world. It doesn't, however, mean he will succeed. If he wanted to. He clearly doesn't. He just doesn't want to deal with the West's corrupt ways, and I'm inclined to agree with him.

So what you're saying is he prefers his own system of open honest Government, for the people, by the people!?:confused:

FB:)

Typhoon, you are Ronald Reagan's long lost love child, and I claim my £5!

S-D

Being a fully paid-up cynic, I reckon the 2 Tornados are being sent to Akrotiri to be 'christmas tree'd' to keep the others going. But I hope I'm wrong (it has been known!).

May have been covered already, is the Ground Attack version of the Typhoon mot CR?

I think it's more than that though isn't it?

• Can Typhoon carry Brimstone
• Is the two crew team in the Tornado with Litening better for this role - combination of ISTAR and weapons delivery - than the single seat Typhoon.

Bit of a problem for the future if the latter of those points is correct.

S-D

In short:

No.

Yes. They are some of the best targeting/ISTAR pod operators I've seen and for good reason. They're not worried about where the jet's going to fly in the next minute!

Cuefeye #7

"Well said mate! But how do they get away with it? More to the point, how do we let them?"

Because we keep voting the buggers in, like sheep to the slaughter. Time to stop following the party line, and start electing politicians who are capable and put their electorate first.

Smudge

But, not enough of us, in or out, to make a difference these days.

A crises of real magnitude could descend on the British people at any moment and he and the cabinet are it. Hope we have some better men, somewhere. Wonder what the election turnout is likely to be next year? I wasn't actually planning on voting for any of the mainstream parties, age and memory have dulled my enthusiasm, its such a sad shame on us.

I honestly have no idea how corrupt the Russian government is, and neither do I care. What I do care about is both sides playing this game of tit for tat. Western governments are known for their corruption, look no further than the government who has control of everything - the great USA.

I don't trust a government who lets their own people be murdered in cold blood.

Typhoon 93, my dear fruit,

It would appear that in the tradition of the left, whether you are with them or not, you are not in the least mindful of the inequities of other than western Governments. Hence your natural reaction to single out and blame western Governments, especially those of the U.S. and U.K. it makes you quite a normal young westerner I suppose. But putting corruption aside for a split-second, brutal authoritarianism is what springs to mind when thinking of the likes of Putin's Russia and others non-western. Claims to be able to reach a sovereign capital within a couple of days, make no mistake, is a direct threat. Claiming you can and will defend yourself is a response. Explain what you mean by "lets their own people be murdered in cold blood."?

FB

Typhoon,

I am not indifferent or insensitive to the rather obvious comparisons, but our legislators allow our people to die all the time whether it's in cold blood or in cold weather. If we vote for these people, what should we expect? Politicians aren't without empathy though, the Henning family won't be the only one suffering this weekend. Legislators are drawn from a broad church and in fairness to her, I'm sure we have always had witless no-marks at the trough.

Liberal Democrat Peer Slammed as Out of Touch for Suggesting £300 a Day Allowance Is Too Little To Live On

"Lady Grender has been involved with politics since the 1980s, when she joined the Young Liberals’ Green Guard, a youth organisation for Liberal Democrats which espoused green economics. From there, Lady Grender became a researcher for the party, and then speech writer for Paddy Ashdown. Between 1990 and 1995 she was Director of Communications for the party, before moving on to take lobbying jobs in the charity and PR sectors."

Cameron uses the opportunity for the latest murder to puff his chest and tells us he won't be deviated from his course. What course - another 'strongly worded statement'? We tried shock and awe once already - against tired, hungry, demotivated and scared conscripts.

FB, I hold a grudge, and will continue to hold a grudge on the Obama administration for refusing to act to attempt to save the lives of the Ambassador, the two U.S Navy SEALs and the civilian contractor(s) who were murdered by insurgents in Libya at the U.S Embassy.

I am not comfortable with that Administration having any say whatsoever in NATO, particularly when their stupidity and incompetence could put UK personnel at risk. Theatres are dangerous places at the best of times, they don't need to be made more dangerous by incompetent politicians who don't even represent the country you are serving.

Al R, I agree. It certainly does seem like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

I know what you mean, I've stumbled about many a theatre, its worst of all when the house lights go down! Absolutely terrible.:}

FB:)

I think the late President Lincoln would have agreed with you too.

If anyone is interested in yer man Fallon's speech, it is; Michael Fallon speech to Conservative Party Conference | PoliticsHome | Press Release | PoliticsHome

Not recommended reading for the easily annoyed.

Well said Typhoon93. The whole Libya thing was a disaster, one only has to look at the continued disintegration of that state right now.
The west supported the wrong side in Libya, they removed a leader allied with us in the war on terror and have basically handed the whole country to terrorists, they then wanted to do the same in Syria. The current crop of western leaders and they political parties they represent are not fit to be in office.
I am sorry if it offends people but leaders like Putin and Xi Jinping come across like an absolute genius compared with the crap we have in office here. If the current crop of useless morons are what democracy represent maybe its not such a good system after all!
There are only two ways through the current system to get real change here, either a UKIP victory or UKIP will force the other parties to change and to change in a real meaningful way.

Ronald Reagan, I agree.

Obama went in to Libya because Gaddafi wanted to change the Libyan currency to gold, subsequently making Libya's economy the largest in the world over night and making the U.S inferior. That's all it is.

So who started the Arab spring then? Which turned out to be quite anti-western in the end. And why was the military response to support the uprising led by our own idiot and the French Bloke? Why did Obama attempt to distance himself from it all, agreeing only to supply limited military support to assist with targeting and surveillance? If he was trying to get someone else to do his dirty work it was a very clever subterfuge. It certainly had me fooled?

If changing your currency to Gold is that simple in order to make your country rich, why don't we all do it? I'm genuinely curious, you may have the march on me there!

FB:)

FB, anything is possible in a less than democratic society, which is what Libya was and continues to be today.

Look at what Hitler achieved in just a short time. Okay, in the end he wasn't successful but he managed to manipulate an entire country...

Still doesn't answer my points but I agree about Hitler, he did fall short of the mark toward the end didn't he!;)

FB:)

Typhoon, you came this forum asking advice as an "aspiring fast jet pilot" although with some confusion about your age and education. Now you seem to have turned into a Ronald Reagan clone - I wonder how similar your IP addresses are.

Anyway, just one thought, you may find a slight conflict of interests between your new political views and a career in the armed forces, unless you're planning to work for Mr Vlad. If you really do still want to join up, you might consider excercising some discretion regarding your views, lest you find yourself "unsuitable."

Hope this helps.

Courtney, as you suggest, there is something that does not ring true with a number of Typhoon93's posts. That he shares the same conspiracy theories as our Russian paid contributed is not lost on any of us.

CM, JTO....

I am certainly not a conspiracy theorist, however, I don't particularly like politicians who serve their own interests and not the interests of the majority.

I find it ironic that our own current government says they support the Forces however they have made huge cuts to the budget and it looks like they will be making even more cuts if they are re-elected. I understand that the deficit needs to be decreased, but I don't agree that personnel should be overworked to unreasonable levels when the world is unstable and it looks to be only getting worse.

However, I think I'll give politics a miss from now on.


T.