Guy Gibson Remembered
 

To my everlasting shame I can't believe I missed the anniversary of Guy Gibson's loss over the Netherlands on 19th September 1944. Not the last of the greats but a legend in our lifetimes. :cool:

Guy Gibson Remembered
 

That begs the question of when you were born.

And to be honest even his own autobiography has tragic elements of hypocrisy.

He decries the targeting of population centres or actions that lead directly to suffering of the civilian population and then seems totally fine with the massive devastation caused by Operation Chastise.

He was a highly skilled pilot, and a very capable leader, but oft you find your heroes are very human.

1944 Dash, so perhaps I was brought up with a 'Boys Own' look on life and childhood heroes. Amiens prison ranks alongside 'Chastise', as does Ploesti, Tirpitz and the Cockleshells. Apart from hypocrisies and shortcomings I thank whoever is up there for putting those heroes on this Earth in times of need. But thank you for your input. :cool:

heroes are not"put on earth"

they are ordinary people who , in times of great danger, put their fears behind them and do extraordinary things

Very well put, HH. Guy Gibson didn't join the RAF to be a hero. He joined, by his own account, to get the qualifications to become a well-paid civilian test pilot. The rest, as they say, is history!

I watched the 2 Lancasters from a roadside verge on the outskirts of Sawston (could not get in to Duxford, so not a "cheapskate"!) in the company of a an elderly lady who arrived in another car who had been a WAAF at Scampton at the time of the Dams raid, and clearly remembered Gibson being told of the death of his dog

It's hard to believe. That this courageous, capable and inspiring young man who died in the line of duty should be subjected to such petty criticism is pathetic beyond words. (Only in Britain).
As always in such instances I wonder what we would discover if we turned the spotlight upon the lives of the distractors.....Victoria Cross material?
I doubt it.

RIP Guy Gibson, Jim Warwick, and all the Bomber Command heroes that died before there time.

Honour the brave.

Having seen the Mohne dam, and seen the speed of a Lancaster, I'm surprised any of them made it. OK, the first one was a surprise, perhaps the second one. But from then on, flying the same track, constant speed, constant height. I know the German defenders weren't front-line troops, and the Lancaster gunners were laying down a barrage, but even so. The phrase "wooden ships and iron men" springs to mind again.

Yes, an aircraft looks solid but to any projectile it's just a soap bubble.

. . . and HOW do we remember him?

'We' rename his dog 'Trigger' so we don't offend people we've never met, who probably understand the jet black dog was actually called 'Nigger'. Not offensive - a bit like the gollies we used to have on Robertson's jams.

Guy may have wondered if it was all worth the effort . . .

It's also ironic he was probably shot down by one of our own.

Not proven that he was shot down by one of our own. Most plausible story I have heard is that the Mossie he flew was Canadian built and had different fuel cocks for some reason. Gibson refused to be briefed on the aircraft. That the aircraft suffered fuel starvation seems most plausible. Eye witnesses reported a light in the cockpit, so hardly goes with the story that it was 'blown out of the sky'.

RIP

Rolling20

Either was likely/plausible but seems to support the assertion it was not 'enemy' action.

RIP

Brian, I would agree with R20. The last person on the ground to speak with either Gibson or Jim Warwick was a SNCO from 627 Sqn at Woodhall Spa (the unit the aircraft came from) who was giving Jim a brief on the Navigator's duties on that mark of Mosquito, one of which was fuel management controlled by cocks behind Gibson's seat (Gibson had flown the Mosquito, but had not done an OCU course on it and Warwick had never flown in the aircraft at all). The SNCO hadn't completed the brief before Gibson turned up and said 'we are going now'. As R20 has stated a Dutch eyewitness saw the aircraft crash and reported that the engines had stopped and there was a light in the cockpit while it was still in flight.

All members of Bomber Command between 1939-1945 were heroes in my view.

Typhoon93; totally agree. Very, very brave men.

Rolling20/MAINJAFAD

Thanks guys.

Sadly sounds like a victim of Push-on-itis, but one wonders if he was just acutely aware of deteriorating weather over the target, which had been switched late on due to weather. I also didn't realise he was so inexperienced on the Mossie, as was his Nav.

Reading around this last flight, it sounds like an RGF, switching aircraft late on, flying with the Station Nav who had a letter on him etc etc.

A bit like Bader, he seems to have attracted a lot of dislike from his peers as well as some form of adulation. Complex character.

Worth a read on Wiki.

Whilst at RCAF Staion Moose Jaw in the early/mid fifties we had a batch of the "New Luftwaffe" in training, I remember a conversation with one of the ex WW2 "Re- Treads", who by the way had been shot down four times, that there was a team which went over Gibsons aircraft with a fine tooth comb, due his rank and status. As a result of this he stated that both engines had not been runing on impact due to fuel starvation, but the aircraft still had fuel in some of the tanks on impact. Now, I have no way of confirming this and it was many years ago, all I remember was that the guy was an acting Major and had started as an NCO pilot some time in WW2, maybe someone has more definative information on this?

Clunckdriver, interesting story sir. To be honest there wasn't much left of the aircraft or its poor occupants. Brian, Gibson reportedly refused to follow the advised route home as well. I guess it was a case of he knew best. As Mick Martin stated, `there wasn't one target left, worth risking his young life for`.

Rolling 20, there were some RAF Acting Pilot Officers on course at the time, maybe they might have taken more interest in this rather than us "colonials", but as I said, I have no way of confirming the Majors story, it was a long time ago and remember the moto of Flight Cadets and aircrew trainees in general, "If you havnt heard a rumor by 1000hrs, then start one" I wonder if there are any German records on this, after all they kept records on bloody near everything and Generall Kamalhuber {spellig} was very insistant on acurate reporting of confirmed kills and details of every night action.

Eight aircraft were claimed by the German night fighter force on the night Gibson was killed, all Lancasters or Halifaxes. The only one to come down in Holland was Lancaster PB299 of 467 Sqn. No combats with Mosquitos were reported.


Source - The Nachtjagd War Diaries Vol 2.


Of course , claims by flak gunners are not recorded here.