We had a choice: Iran or Saudi Arabia.

SA informed us that if Iran was in, they were out.

SA is much more aligned to our overall political goals than Iran - Iran supports Assad keeping control of Syria.

We also don't want Iran & Iraq becoming "best buds".

I think they should be referred to as the Mesopotamia Half Flight. An appropriate historical connection.

Political and military folly.

Why B71?
Should they only be taking an updated Huey?

Riding home in car tonight with number one son aged 13.
"Dad, the kids at school say ISIL are going to bomb Sydney Harbour Bridge."
Sad.
"No they're not," says I. "In fact, ISIL don't even appreciate what's going to happen to them in the next couple of weeks."
Long discussion then ensues about laser designators, special forces and what a GBU does to a technical with a.50 cal on the back.
Or a scrawny bully with a blunt knife and an AK47.
I think the comparisons with Vietnam are foolish and my adopted country is doing the right thing.

With respect B71, would you care to expand on this? Do you mean that the deployment is stupid in its intent, or that there is stupidity in how it's equipped?

If it's the former, I respectfully disagree. Morally it's the most 'decent' thing we've done since Timor. Politically Tony Abbot is gaining credit on a world stage.

If it's the later, what would be a better load-out? ...with equipment that we actually have, I mean..

Agree Hempy.
You're a bit more reasoned and respectful than I.
I think he meant stupid in intent... to which I add my disagreement.

Pathetic sniping OB. Am still in Russia after time in Crimea so a brief response.

On BBC TV a few days back, a respected Arab entity informed that IS is 80,000 strong, not 10 to 20,000 as estimated by the US and growing in strength with Sunnis disaffected by the foolish US disbandment of the Iraqi Army. They are also apparently well organized and strongly financed.

History tells us it is nigh impossible to counter para-military movements that blend at will with local populations and the respected Arab opined that any Western nation nvolvement will invite reprisals.

The more Australia dances with the US and Brits, the more we risk pariah status with the ASEAN Bloc Plus Three group of nations, which includes our 2 major trading partners, China and Japan. Both the US and Brits have worn out their welcome in SEA.

PM Abbott has zero military acumen and is repeatedly making an arse of himself trying to grandstand on the world stage. A pretty sure bet in my view that this adventure could have adverse consequences for Australia.

Pray tell the consequences for Australia if we don't be 'adventurous'?

You seem to suggest that if we just leave them alone they'll waste all their energy on the US/UK and 'we'll be right mate'.

I'm suggesting that if there was ever a good reason to send Australians overseas to fight, this is it. This 'group' is as lawless, violent, brutal, and morally obscene as any regime in modern history. At least Amin, Pol Pot and their ilk generally only had local designs, and their slaughter followed accordingly. This vermin kill for fun, and want to spread it everywhere.

They need to be eradicated now at all cost. The longer it takes, the harder its going to be. But it has to happen eventually...the behaviour is intolerable to a civilised world.

You can't sit on your hands on this one mate, regardless of politics.

I'm with B71.

If Aussie participants want to avoid future disillusionment they might like to consider the following:

1. IS, like its predecessor Al Qaeda (the database), is 'Orange Force' funded by Saudi, Turkey and Qatar (and hence, indirectly, the US) that's why these countries can't join the coalition. Gotta have at least one degree of separation.

2. The prize is Syria. For an Oz angle research Woodside and the Leviathan Project. Pipelines vs shipping.

3. The ADF bosses know this but the US sugar daddy of protection and technology trumps any ethical argument. Just following orders.

4. Pictures of a few western innocents dying are deliberately splashed around to whip up people like Hempy. How many pictures of the 495 children and 253 women killed in Gaza recently are splashed around in western media. Ultimately does it really matter how you die?

5. We are not the good guys - just extras in a bigger production.

Good luck gang - watch out for Patriot and don't get captured.

Well if there's in fact 80,000 of them as said respected Arab entity says, then isn't that even more reason to get involved?
What's the alternative?
Taken to an extreme, let IS overrun Iraq?
What happens then?
I think the arguments about our involvement inviting reprisals ignore reality.
I believe that sooner or later, regardless of what we do, there will be a Islamic extremist terror attack on Australian soil.
The fact is that Australia is inextricably linked to the United States.
It has been since WW2.
Those links extend into domains and down to levels that the general public is broadly unaware of.
We've been part of Five Eyes since 1946 when UKUSA was signed.
Pine Gap is the US's eyes and ears at the bottom of the world.
Australia owns a satellite in the WGS constellation.
And I think that's a good thing.

How far would you go with them tartare?

All the way?

Yes LT - sitting on Mr Martin Baker - I would.
All the way.

I can't help but think that the ADF would have been pushing the Super Hornet/Wedgetail/KC-30 combination to the Government quite strongly. What better environment to test 3 platforms so close to IOC than a turkey shoot with air superiority.

The fact that we are being seen to do something to stem the spread of the abomination that is ISIS is incidental in holding up our end of the alliance.

Best of luck to all our men and women using their shiny new toys in anger for the first time.

...widespread anti terror police raids being reported across east coast cities this morning.
I rest my case.

LT Selfridge: How far would you go with them tartare?


Hi Selfridge. I guess yesterday was an anniversary for you?
17 SEP 1908, Orville fared better than your namesake...

BB

The report of my death was an exaggeration.




"I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few."

thread drift, but that Chairman of JCS sure sounds like Kevin Costner !!


And he is telling it the way it is (despite the denials of POTUS this morning)... if air power can't win it alone (and it can't), then he will go to the President and ask for ground troops. Obvious.

meanwhile in Australia this morning:

Terrorism raids carried out across Sydney, Brisbane

News here says that these morons were planning a Lee Rigby style campaign here.

Fight fire with fire..

That certainly would have been good timing...