F4 vs Lightning vs F15 vs F14 vs F16 etc
 

Just been peeking at the Lightning thread and others, one in particular about a single F14 vs F15 encounter some time years ago - thus leading to lots of 'debate'.

Basically I'm going to ask - yes the type is important but are tactics (i.e. use what you've got to best effect) far more important?

And even a new guy in the Hottest jet won't necessarily beat an experienced hand in an older / lower performance a/c.

Easy answer. Yes the performance of the jet is the answer. As long as the pilot is properly trained to fly the aircraft to its limits and manage his energy and weapons systems to maximum effect, the best a/c will win. From your menu, that would be the F-15.

As per CM's comments but sometimes the conditions can favour one type. I've been on the winning side of the F-16 vs F-15 contest when the F15 was forced down from the high block. The other advantage is the early tally and from the comfort of a tiny F-16 the mighty F-15 does look rather big.

Whats the F14 vs F15 debate, do you have a thread ?

With a lot of help from GCI, I've had an F-14 in a Hawk gunsight......:ok:


..then he saw us :{

F3Banana, I’ll trade you 2xT28 behind 2xF14, but only inside camera range during a low speed turning fight.

'Whats the F14 vs F15 debate, do you have a thread ?' Sorry can't find that page now but wasn't this site - will keep looking.

How did the Tornado F3 get on then? I understand that although it's performance was slightly lower at altitude the tactics were evolved to compensate.

I know this could go on forever but unless you ask, you never know.

Also the Falklands SHAR vs Mirage.

FWIW I have zero experience just a curiosity to hear from the sources :ok:

How about a Hunter in what would've been a Harvard's gun sights?

Worth remembering that under 'aircraft' come other sub headings, sensors, weapons, off bore sight capability, SA, fuel...as well as the perhaps more obvious ones of turn rates and excess power.

I personally believe that the probability that an old and bold in a legacy type will beat a young scamp in a contemporary type gets smaller by the day.

To answer the question from a modern standpoint; are any of the jets at a mod state with decent IRCMs, MIDS, JHMCS and 9X?

On the question of SHAR v Mirage in the Falklands, the ARG aircraft had little or no combat fuel. They went a long way to deliver their weapons. Their only option was to run in, deliver, keep their heads down and run. If they got involved on any kind of fight, they would never have made it home.

In the early days of the Tornado F3 v F15 (Z list radar), 2v2 usually ended up as 1 F3 dead and 1 running away. You might get an F15 one time in four. Once it got up to 4v4, then it was almost break even, assuming you made the best of the 2 brains in each F3 cockpit by trying to confuse the F15s' air picture.

5v4 worked quite well, if the F15s were expecting 4v4 :E
I do remember being told for the second day running by the F15s that "That cheap trick won't work again" and our QWIL replying "Nope, but we've got 4 more, and there are only 3 days left!"

One did not, of course, ever turn more than 90 degrees for a shot, and then only if the F15 was not reacting. A lot of time was spent running one way or the other at about M1.3

Night was a different story altogether...LJ's your expert there...

Courtney has of course flown both...Thoughts?

Try this, might be what you are looking for.

The Aviationist » The story of a legendary F-14 pilot and the gun kill on an F-15 that could sell Tomcats to Japan

That's the one, not focussing especially on that encounter just an example of DACT.

Thanks for the informative replies.

Ah, fighting flap.

Turn inside that, if you can.

I'm sure I read something once which indicated an F14 was 'trounced' by a Harrier doing VIFF turns (probably USMC).

Platform doesn't count for diddly if you don't have the picture.

That's why comparisons are so difficult as the data world has changed so much. It doesn't always work though! I remember a mid 90s 4 GR7 v 2 F15 E that was interesting! Due to the lack of picture, at one stage in the debrief I recall 4 individual winder shots in the air against the same F15 at the same time. Luckily we didn't have guns!

Tumbleweed!

Watched a F-14 against an F-15 in Deci the F-14 wanted to launch Phoenix before he even got on the range but the range couldn't handle that, so they closed and the F-15 won, but then again I witnessed a Hawk take out two F-15...... Well the F-15 managed to kill his wingman and the Hawk got the other.

Does reliability become a factor... Being able to do multiple turn-rounds on the aircraft to generate consecutive sorties?

You could have the best combat aircraft in the world but if it needs 100 hours maintenance for every 1 flying hour, it's not that useful. I suppose reliable mud movers that can do quick turn arounds, if unopposed could keep on delivering and overwhelm the other side. Almost a force multiplier.

Was the F-14 was canned in the end because it was requiring too much maint per flying hour? I suppose if your doing carrier ops you don't want the second wave to go u/s on the flight deck and block the first wave from landing.

Thanks for that link

Tomcat vs F15