Did have to request a fuel priority to cross the runway and taxi back after diverting off a Q scramble and landing on one engine.

That seems to be a lot of "maybes" for one of the UK's biggest peacetime ops. I'm interested in your maths there. Assuming the wait for the tanker to pitch up was the three to four hours you mention, how far behind Q1 would Q2 need to be?

I take your point about poaching tankers, but they weren't always there even in those days. Pre-positioning is always an option, but if activity could always be predicted we wouldn't have ended up having to do rush Q generations.

I suppose my question is, what happened when all those extra needs weren't available? Could the Southern Q Lightning base(s) really cover the northern area without all the extra lucky support?

I believe that in the early days just after 5 got the interim 6s ('66) they were scrambled from Binbrook to Bears and wee dragged further north than the 3s from Leuchars usually went - in fact so far that one ended up in Lossie. This was the last time that they went so far. In my time - up to '68 - I don't recall any Tanker support for Q although someone may know differently?

P Time
 

Penetration time to the UKADR (calculated with a little help from our Northern friends) was generally in the 2 hr 10 mins region so if you got cracking then it was absolutely possible to get the peices in play at the right time and place. As my learned friend ORAC has said, the tanker boys were always eager to get airborne well within their 2 hour limit. Depending on the situation, we could also reduce their RS - but my aging brain tells me that they were limited as to the time they could hold RS 10 (i.e. cockpit). Anyway, bottom line is that we didn't need the moon and stars to align to get the job done.

Rhino Power,
Sorry I did not get back. Yes, I believe the slatted tail did make a noticeable difference at lower speeds and certainly in the circuit.
M2N

As an ADO in the "Diversion Cell" at Patrington in 1965-1967, I remember the Binbrook F6s "going North" and returning to Binbrook. I also remember "Bear Week" at Buchan, when we had a succession of Bears transiting Russia-Cuba and Takers were supporting the Leuchars Javelins

Thanks, M2N, much appreciated.

-RP

Nice pic

https://scontent.fadl1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...bd&oe=582FCB98

There I was, 3 years as a SAC AATC, 1st posting to Wattisham where, sadly, I witnessed the 23rd Canberra fatal practice asymmetric approach, then a course at North Luffenham and a posting to Northern Dairies, my favourite posting of all. ( I met the current Mrs. W there, 44 years ago last month)

One nightshift, I was manning the BBK CCA suite, and my controller, an Ulsterman like myself, was up on the bridge, having made up a four for Bridge.

All fine and well, until a call came from Patrington, requesting a handover for two pairs recovering. I took the details and gave the Patrington controller the usual caveat, "Wait for Controller" and shouted up to the bridge, " Sir, two pairs recovering" back came the reply, "you take them Mike, I'm playing 7 no trumps" No chance I thought, he'll never make 7 no trumps.

I took the first pair, descending them to 50 in the dive circle and then handed them to BBK approach just as Patrington called with the second and last pair of the night. Same again and when BBK called me back to say they had finished for the night, I closed the BBK CCA suite with the allocator.

I somehow feel that this wouldn't happen in this day and age. I mean 7 no trumps?, on the night shift?

It is a nice picture, Megan, thank you. We can see our married quarter!

Was that the pic that became an Athena type poster?

I believe that pic was taken from a Harrier, but stand to be corrected.
I've also heard it said that Mike Thompson was piloting the Lightning, but heard others say that isn't correct...

NickB - that is where I was headed - it was certainly the lovely MT in the Athena poster

Wander00 - for the life of me, I cannot remember what the Athena Lightning poster looked like! Just done an eBay search which didn't help either!

Could you post the image if you have one (unlikely) or could find on t'internet (more likely)?
Thanks :ok:

Nick -


This link, 6th row down, w from left - I think its the same pic cropped slightly differently, but it is about 33 years ago!


W

Sorry Wander00 - I'm not seeing the link you refer to!

Could you try again pls?

It would of course help if I had included it - at the time I was being bombarded by gite guests who wanted me to find them a dive school - NOW!


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=en...HdItBSoQ7AkIQA

Photo is by Richard Cooke

RICHARD COOKE | Aircraft Photographs

That will be the one

I have nothing but admiration for WIWOLs but remember a Lightning det to VL in the 80s, where we did a 2 SHAR v 2 Lightning bundle west of the Amber way until they ran out of gas, then waited for the next pair and fought them out of gas before doing a quick 1 v 1 and returning for some whacky VSTOL.

Next day I took one of them up in the T4 and demonstrated the low-weight ramp launch to immediate VL. I think he forgot to breath but at least he didn't need to change his flying suit!

NickB

I believe that pic was taken from a Harrier, but stand to be corrected.
I've also heard it said that Mike Thompson was piloting the Lightning, but heard others say that isn't correct...


It was indeed taken by a Harrier, and I was flying it. MoD wanted a shot of a Lightning from head on in a vertical climb over the middle of Binbrook for a recruiting poster.

R Cooke esq., rolled up at Wittering and we fitted his specially- modded camera–carrying CBLS to a T4. He sat in the back and pushed the bomb button to activate the camera on my call. Obviously he couldn’t see anything of what was going on behind us.

The Lightning pilot was Mike Thompson and he had to tuck in very close under my tail as we ran in at 400kt and pulled up over the airfield.

After viewing the shots from the first sortie, Richard said he needed the Lightning closer to the lens!

I had a quiet chat with Mike and we reflew the profile - I could feel the Lightning on the stick all the way through the manoeuvre.

Mike said he had been “pretty close” during the pull-up. I didn’t want to know how close exactly!

All the best,

ExMudmover

Ah, the wonder of the InterWeb in general and PPRUNE in particular! I had considered asking here if anyone might happen to know any details of how Richard Cooke obtained his signature "head-on" shots (perhaps the best-known of which is the rocket-firing Harrier). No need for that, however, as I had only to wait a couple of days for xMM to authoritatively address the issue!

Interesting choice of camera ship to get that Lightning shot (to the uninitiated like myself). The Harrier had many strengths as a jet and weapons platform but I never imagined vertical climbs to be a particular strength?


Could you maybe enlighten me exMM? (Weapons delivery profile maybe?)

I believe that at that time Mike was the Lightning display pilot

That would make it 1983 then. (obviously before Aug 26 of course :()

Treble one

I made an error in my original post. The run-in speed was a lot higher than 400kt, probably nearer 500. Remember also the Harrier had a high thrust to weight ratio , (even the T4), so a vertical climb was no big deal.

Regards

ExMudmover

Not the best taste that Geeram.

Why?
It's obvious what, GeeRam is referring to, it's also quite clear that no offence or bad 'taste' was intended or meant, stop looking for ill intent where there is none!

-RP

Yes RP and Geeram fair enough.
Just me briefly being a slapped arse .

Thanks Ex MM.


I confess that I thought the Harrier was a much heavier aircraft than it actually is (just done a little bit of research).


All the best
TO

Similar shot of XS422 in 'test pilot' series over boscombe. big camera on centreline of hawk for this.

Surely the whole point of the Harrier was that thrust exceeded weight (except when taking off with a full load of bombs). The drag from the large intake did limit max speed though.

But it still lost in the helo vs Harrier time to height from "brakes off" bet.....

But did the helo actually release the brakes?

There was also a great shot from a 1980s TV programme (series?) related to RAF Germany that started with the camera in a high hover over a Phantom stationary at the threshold.

The Phantom began its takeoff roll, and the camera followed - I assumed a helicopter, and that the F-4 would soon accelerate out of the frame.

Not a bit of it - the camera followed in a tight shot into the climb-out.

Clearly a 2 seat Harrier; anybody else remember that, or even better remember the programme - or even even better have a link to the shot on YouTube? :D

I think the TV programme would have been an episode of the documentary series Man Alive on BBC which was done at Wildenrath in 1980. I spoke with Graham Clarke a few years ago who had to fly the reporter, Jack Pizzey, who completed his piece to camera between retches!

It is also mentioned in David Gledhill's book The Phantom in Focus and according to him it was a Gazelle helicopter that was used for the take off sequence. Have had a look for it on Youtube but without success.

Monsun - this must have been the programme.

Man Alive: Phantom - BBC Two England - 1 May 1982 - BBC Genome

and a bit more from BEagle here:

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...natonwide.html

I think the clip you wanted is here:

Wildenrath Phantoms Video by DeeGee | Photobucket

and a few other similar clips here:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/DeeG...?sort=3&page=1

:p

As I understand no - the bet was that the helo would call brakes off, but The rules didn't insist they had to be released before either started their climb.......

Thanks, Wokkafans and Monsun!

And many thanks to Wokkafans from me as well!