Ex-Min Def in now defacto leader. Out of the flying pan . . .

Chickens and roost or petards hoisted spring to mind.

========

On aircraft on carriers, a former captain of Arc opinind that on the US model the new carriers should have 65 aircraft.

I rather suspect that the lower slopes of that mountain, where the IS scum are, would be very happy hunting grounds for both Apache and AC-130U 'Spooky II' aircraft, on NVG missions. I rather think that its time some grit was shown by taking the fight to these low lives, and give them some "run but can't hide" treatment. Meanwhile, the lads and lasses in theatre seem to be performing well. What else should we expect ? Ahh, political will!

Smudge:ok:

Totally agree Smudge. I think we're all sick of throwing lives away on piecemeal operations. Time for the governments of the world to commit to sorting this out once and for all.

No new Iraq war.
 

Humanitarian aid mission morphs into a limited support, longer term limited air war conflict?
The PM, and the UK Governments response to this has baffled me for days.




No new Iraq war, Cameron says - Telegraph


Cant believe the way politicians trot out these glib, sound-bite statements for the public such as boots on the ground.
He must not be receiving the correct sort of briefings. There must be quite a few such items of UK footwear on the said ground by now - would be disappointed in the UK military if there weren't.
I imagine by now, reading this, all sorts of RAF and others assets are working flat out on this complete 180 degree turn stratergy by the UK Government. Tornado aircraft, Rivet Joint (?), supply aircraft, helicopters, special forces, paratroopers, spies.......
We have effectively declared a war, if limited, upon the group ISIS.
They wont be so limited in their response to us, which is also what the PM appears to be saying.
In response from them, I expect more bloody carnage on the streets of the UK soon from this passport holding enemy who now live or dwell in high numbers within our lovely island. Why hasn't parliament been recalled for this. Where is our mandate to intervene? Should there be vote on the H of C upon it? What are the exact terms, limit of our support?
Can you have a limited conflict, or war? Do nations who embark upon them generally win these conflicts? Are we now in a sort of, hate to say it, like a limited conflict such as the UK endured against the IRA in the 1970's to the 1990's? Can American Air Power with limited UK support thwart ISIS? All of this needs to be carefully debated and thought through at the very highest level by the UK civ and mil leadership, but I just wonder about them all.

Hangar

"sound-bite statements for the public such as boots on the ground."

Yes, and then I read today that 120 more SF Troops are on the way
and soldiers from the York Regiment ? are already there.

Yep, No boots on the ground !

Tash:

Maybe the way to do it is either, let each side slaughter the other and end responding to the 'something must be done' lobby, or warn the big players behind the scene in the Arab and Persian world, either stop your support and funding or we turn your countries into glass.

We do not want anymore young people being repatriated through Brize Norton or worse on to be captured and tortured and beheaded on live television.

Time to stay out and let the locals sort it out themselves.

Of course, the major flaw in that plan is that ISIS is not a 'local' movement, but instead has declared its intent to found a global caliphate.

Sooner or later we will have to confront them, like it or not.

I wish our current Govt had the balls to direct the police to do some 'confronting' with the Oxford Street local ISIS movement that was trying to recruit fresh membership over the last few days.

How much longer can our British be nice to everyone policy stand up in the face of clear cut and unambiguous ISIS recruiting drives going on in the centre of London?

IS needs to get past Israel before they take on world domination. Good luck with that one.

"Sooner or later we will have to confront them, like it or not."
We will have to? why is that then? I can think of a handful of large, rich and capable countries in the region/neighbouring Iraq itself that can and should be leading this fight.
Saudi Arabia, principally should be leading the middle east to put down this uprising.
We, don't need to do anything!:mad:

Jay

Agree re other states, inc SA.

What has happened to his sidekick? He used to roll out Nick Clegg for all the political hot potatoes while hiding in the background.
I've also noticed of late he blurts out stuff for No 10 to correct it and say "what he actually meant was"
He did similar rattling off some huge investment when his figures actually included that which was previously budgeted.

Saudi et al are part of the problem, not the solution. Where do you think the extreme ideology and the funding come from?

Some more moderate regional countries, like Jordan, are being bolstered by the West but time will tell what effect that has on slowing ISIS.

As for Israel, no doubt they will be drawn in at some point (of ISIS's choosing), but there are land routes from Syria/Iraq into Europe and (almost) North Africa that completely bypass Israel.

Maybe we won't ever have to confront ISIS, but that sounds more like wishful thinking than anything else.

I think that is called suicide.

UK PM Cameron
 

Made some fairly strange sound-bite statements for the press this afternoon, he said it all seemed perfectly clear (in his little pink faced annoyed-voice way), and has now gone on another holiday (this time to Cornwall, so my commiserations with that one anyway). COBRA, a room wherein an unelected committee (which has had it amazingly wrong in the recent past and has been caught as flat footed as a tortoise on this one) sits, and apparently has it all in hand.
And so, in the month of August yet again, I fear we will head towards more loss of precious young UK lives, mark my words.
Dimwits all.


Hope you are wrong Melmoth, but you may be on the money.

So just to recap so far then.
 

Looking at UK Channel 4 news tonight the UK mil support for this is as follows. Tornado Aircraft (6)? Supporting Tanker Aircraft. I presume Hercules C130 still doing what they do. Other UK supply aircraft gathering weaponry and ammunition from around Europe for delivery to the Kurds. A Rivet Joint Aircraft and probably drone aircraft for surveillance and support over N Iraq. Undoubtedly UK SF (Boots on the ground, but they aren't) and probably much more than that in other units.(Yorkshire Regt got a mention).
All of this one can gleam by reading the various newspapers, I'm not looking for confirmation because I understand the OPSEC involved - but its quite a sizeable package really.
Many service people at risk - they should recall Parliament and have a national debate - this is a shameful drift and escalation.

Seems to me that the west seems to lurch from one short term action to another.

COBRA meets, decides on an action, micro manages the military instead of letting them get on with it, COBRA meets, decides on another action but scaled up, micro manages the military instead of letting them get on with it and so it goes on.

Hangershuffle:

And the duty spearhead battlegroup is preparing for deployment into Poland, talk about spreading forces thinly.